Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dogs - General Dog Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #71  
Old 11-16-2013, 07:26 AM
Laurelin's Avatar
Laurelin Laurelin is offline
I'm All Ears
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 29,211
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenSins View Post
Let me put it this way, since this has actually happened. My leashed dogs didn't make the news. Either time.

Nobody would ever be able to say the same if a toddler ran up to someone's leashed manbiting Pit Bull and ended up in the hospital. That would be a headline, period.
Maybe it didn't make the headlines but it definitely affects the breed negatively in SOME way. It is not just a neutral thing that happened.

I am extremely wary of pit bulls these days for this very reason. I have personally seen too many maul another dog, heard 'responsible pit owners' talk about their dogs killing other dogs, and had too many friends whose dogs were attacked by pit bulls and injured through no fault of their own. My trainer's dog was the most recent case- attacked at a dog show while in the hotel on a leash. They were simply walking out their door and the dog started mauling him. My cousin's pit killed a golden a few years ago. I watched a pit take off half a mastiff's ear and they had to choke him off. Both dogs in that instance were leashed. I know several owners on forums who have admitted their dogs have killed other dogs (and almost with a badge of honor- well my dog is SUPER DA but he's so great with people!). And I could go on. And on.

That kind of stuff definitely has shaped my feelings towards the breed and the way the owners seem to be failing to manage that DA... I have known other dog breeds where individuals have injured/fought with other dogs, but not to the same extent. The end result is that I don't really trust the breed at all. I am so much more aware when around a pit bull and so much more cautious than with most other breeds. It has zip to do with media perception and everything to do with how many bad experiences I've had.

Personally, I would MUCH rather deal with a dog with a somewhat spooky temperament than one who was 'stable with people' that's instincts were to kill other dogs. I'm not sure I'd call that a 'stable dog'. I don't think stability simply has to do with how the dog reacts towards people. A dog that goes off the hilt at another dog for simply being? Not on the top of my list when it comes to stability and safety.

And I hear other people with the same thoughts too, it's not just me. My trainer won't go anywhere without mace and a cattle prod now.
__________________
Mia CGC - (5 year old papillon)
Summer TG3 TBAD - (10 year old papillon)
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 11-16-2013, 09:23 AM
Flyinsbt's Avatar
Flyinsbt Flyinsbt is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 886
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
Personally, I would MUCH rather deal with a dog with a somewhat spooky temperament than one who was 'stable with people' that's instincts were to kill other dogs. I'm not sure I'd call that a 'stable dog'. I don't think stability simply has to do with how the dog reacts towards people. A dog that goes off the hilt at another dog for simply being? Not on the top of my list when it comes to stability and safety.
.
Not me. I am lucky enough to own bull breed dogs who aren't particularly dog aggressive, but even if they were DA, I would still rather deal with that than with a spooky dog. Spooky is just too freaking hard to predict.

I was walking my 3 Staffords, on leash, through a nearby park once. There was a family walking on a path, towards the path I was on. Suddenly their little boy (maybe 3?) broke away from his family and came running straight at my dogs. His parents tried to stop him, and to call him back, in a panic, but he was undeterred. He ran right up and swatted my Tully dog on the rump. He meant it as a pat, but it came out as a slap to the rear. Tully hadn't seen him approach, but as soon as he swatted her, she turned around with a big smile, and wagging tail "oh, hi!" The parents breathed a sigh of relief, and came up with the rest of the kids, who petted the dogs while I talked to their parents for a couple minutes.

If Tully was a spooky dog, that little boy wouldn't have had a face. If her reaction to being startled was to bite, she could have done so much damage in an instant. Their were 3 adults there, and none of us could stop the boy in time.

I'd rather my dog not hurt somebody else's dog either, but they just couldn't do the same damage in an instant to another dog that they could to a small child. (this was not the only unexpected and dangerous thing I've had a child do to my dogs, but probably the most likely to incite a bite.)

My neighbors have a spooky dog (GWP, not that this matters), btw, and you couldn't pay me enough to own a dog like that. Aside from the irritating fence fighting, that dog walked up to me on the sidewalk, while I was chatting in a friendly manner with her owner, and bit me. Just a nip, but it drew blood, and if it weren't for neighborly relations, animal control would have heard about it.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 11-16-2013, 09:46 AM
Shakou's Avatar
Shakou Shakou is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyinsbt View Post
Not me. I am lucky enough to own bull breed dogs who aren't particularly dog aggressive, but even if they were DA, I would still rather deal with that than with a spooky dog. Spooky is just too freaking hard to predict.

I was walking my 3 Staffords, on leash, through a nearby park once. There was a family walking on a path, towards the path I was on. Suddenly their little boy (maybe 3?) broke away from his family and came running straight at my dogs. His parents tried to stop him, and to call him back, in a panic, but he was undeterred. He ran right up and swatted my Tully dog on the rump. He meant it as a pat, but it came out as a slap to the rear. Tully hadn't seen him approach, but as soon as he swatted her, she turned around with a big smile, and wagging tail "oh, hi!" The parents breathed a sigh of relief, and came up with the rest of the kids, who petted the dogs while I talked to their parents for a couple minutes.

If Tully was a spooky dog, that little boy wouldn't have had a face. If her reaction to being startled was to bite, she could have done so much damage in an instant. Their were 3 adults there, and none of us could stop the boy in time.

I'd rather my dog not hurt somebody else's dog either, but they just couldn't do the same damage in an instant to another dog that they could to a small child. (this was not the only unexpected and dangerous thing I've had a child do to my dogs, but probably the most likely to incite a bite.)

My neighbors have a spooky dog (GWP, not that this matters), btw, and you couldn't pay me enough to own a dog like that. Aside from the irritating fence fighting, that dog walked up to me on the sidewalk, while I was chatting in a friendly manner with her owner, and bit me. Just a nip, but it drew blood, and if it weren't for neighborly relations, animal control would have heard about it.

I agree. Charlotte's fear aggression issues with strange dogs aren't always the easiest to deal with, but I'm SOOOO glad the problem is with dogs and NOT people. And I DO say that proudly. Charlotte is far from perfect, but if there's one thing I can say with a "badge of honor" is that I never have had to worry about her with people.
__________________

"Ma'ii is always out there, waiting. And Ma'ii is always hungry." - Navajo proverb
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 11-16-2013, 09:57 AM
Dogdragoness's Avatar
Dogdragoness Dogdragoness is offline
FINALLY warm ... YAY :D
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Gillett/San Antonio TX
Posts: 3,487
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyinsbt View Post
Not me. I am lucky enough to own bull breed dogs who aren't particularly dog aggressive, but even if they were DA, I would still rather deal with that than with a spooky dog. Spooky is just too freaking hard to predict.

I was walking my 3 Staffords, on leash, through a nearby park once. There was a family walking on a path, towards the path I was on. Suddenly their little boy (maybe 3?) broke away from his family and came running straight at my dogs. His parents tried to stop him, and to call him back, in a panic, but he was undeterred. He ran right up and swatted my Tully dog on the rump. He meant it as a pat, but it came out as a slap to the rear. Tully hadn't seen him approach, but as soon as he swatted her, she turned around with a big smile, and wagging tail "oh, hi!" The parents breathed a sigh of relief, and came up with the rest of the kids, who petted the dogs while I talked to their parents for a couple minutes.

If Tully was a spooky dog, that little boy wouldn't have had a face. If her reaction to being startled was to bite, she could have done so much damage in an instant. Their were 3 adults there, and none of us could stop the boy in time.

I'd rather my dog not hurt somebody else's dog either, but they just couldn't do the same damage in an instant to another dog that they could to a small child. (this was not the only unexpected and dangerous thing I've had a child do to my dogs, but probably the most likely to incite a bite.)

My neighbors have a spooky dog (GWP, not that this matters), btw, and you couldn't pay me enough to own a dog like that. Aside from the irritating fence fighting, that dog walked up to me on the sidewalk, while I was chatting in a friendly manner with her owner, and bit me. Just a nip, but it drew blood, and if it weren't for neighborly relations, animal control would have heard about it.
I don't have bullies, I have herding dogs who IMHO are far less permissive with humans then the bully breeds are. All the bully breeds I have met are super good with people (though not with other dogs in some cases) Buddy probably would have had the same reaction as your dog. Josefina? I don't know what she would have done, since I have never her this happen (I am really good at running interference in public and I have no kids who visit).

Also ppl seem to think that DA and HA are the same thing when they are NOT! Dogs that will kill another dog usually make great only-dog pets. People forget that the fighting breeds are not supposed to be human aggressive.

@seven sins you are very all over the place, you wouldn't tolerate a dog who attacks other dogs yet your dogs have attacked other dogs before ...

I think ACDs and some of the other high drive working breeds are a lot less tolerant of human BS then any of the bully breeds I have seen.
__________________



Last edited by Dogdragoness; 11-16-2013 at 10:16 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 11-16-2013, 10:31 AM
Torch's Avatar
Torch Torch is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Posts: 672
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakou View Post
I agree. Charlotte's fear aggression issues with strange dogs aren't always the easiest to deal with, but I'm SOOOO glad the problem is with dogs and NOT people. And I DO say that proudly. Charlotte is far from perfect, but if there's one thing I can say with a "badge of honor" is that I never have had to worry about her with people.
You should be proud That's the true nature of the breed.

Rhys was 12 weeks old and got grabbed by a strange little girl when we were coming out of an elevator. Keep in mind he had never been in a parking garage or an elevator. This kid was young and super fast. She bear hugged him and sat down on the ground kissing and loving on him. Her parents were mortified and terrified, but Rhys thought he was in heaven. I'll never forget that, or how differently things could have turned out if he wasn't such a people suck.
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 11-16-2013, 10:43 AM
Dogdragoness's Avatar
Dogdragoness Dogdragoness is offline
FINALLY warm ... YAY :D
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Gillett/San Antonio TX
Posts: 3,487
Default

I am surprised how many dog ppl dismiss people's actions like this as "ok" and permissive and I happen to think it is NOT. Luckily I have a dog who looks kind of like a coy dog (so people think ... I have given up arguing that she isn't :/ ) I really don't know so I let ppl think she is, hey if it keeps people away then great .

I am not a petting zoo, so I owe the public nothing, as long as my dogs are leashes are controlled my ass is covered, regardless of what they claim.
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 11-16-2013, 11:06 AM
Flyinsbt's Avatar
Flyinsbt Flyinsbt is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 886
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogdragoness View Post
I am surprised how many dog ppl dismiss people's actions like this as "ok" and permissive and I happen to think it is NOT. Luckily I have a dog who looks kind of like a coy dog (so people think ... I have given up arguing that she isn't :/ ) I really don't know so I let ppl think she is, hey if it keeps people away then great .

I am not a petting zoo, so I owe the public nothing, as long as my dogs are leashes are controlled my ass is covered, regardless of what they claim.
It's not "ok", but it happens. When the kid rushed my dogs in the park, the parents knew it was a scary and wrong thing, and I bet they worked harder on avoiding it in the future, because they knew how lucky they were. I certainly don't encourage kids to suddenly latch onto my dogs. But kids are kids. Some of them seem drawn to dogs like a moth to a flame.

I do not want a child bitten by my dog, I don't care if the child's behavior incited it. When I was a kid- maybe 8?- in Campfire Girls, I watched the troop leader's Dachsund take a good sized chunk out of a 4-yr-old's face. (child grabbed the dog from behind and startled him) It was gruesome. Blood galore. Not something I want to see again.

I'm not going to say that nobody can keep a child-biting dog, that's not my call. But I will not.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 11-16-2013, 11:14 AM
SevenSins's Avatar
SevenSins SevenSins is offline
APBTs & One Crazy Banana
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 277
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
Maybe it didn't make the headlines but it definitely affects the breed negatively in SOME way. It is not just a neutral thing that happened.
And personally, I'd rather have a dog who is bombproof with people and can handle itself if someone else is irresponsible with their dog, because you know full well that the owner of the other dog is just going to stand there with their thumb up their ass.

If it bothers you less that some asshat allows his giant dog to come charging out of his open garage at another dog in the street, and more that the other dog was leashed but finished the fight he didn't start because he didn't roll over and let the other dog kill him first, that sounds like a "you" issue.

So what are your thoughts on sighthounds?
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 11-16-2013, 11:28 AM
Laurelin's Avatar
Laurelin Laurelin is offline
I'm All Ears
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 29,211
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenSins View Post
And personally, I'd rather have a dog who is bombproof with people and can handle itself if someone else is irresponsible with their dog, because you know full well that the owner of the other dog is just going to stand there with their thumb up their ass.

If it bothers you less that some asshat allows his giant dog to come charging out of his open garage at another dog in the street, and more that the other dog was leashed but finished the fight he didn't start because he didn't roll over and let the other dog kill him first, that sounds like a "you" issue.

So what are your thoughts on sighthounds?
I honestly have no idea what you're talking about about the giant dog charging out of the open garage?

I was just trying to illustrate two things 1) that DA/dog on dog attacks can cause pit bulls bad press or cause people to be more wary of the breeds. People seemed to be saying that a pit bull attacking another dog wouldn't cause an issue? 2) DA means you have to manage that dog very closely. And if the management goes wrong then sometimes the consequences are also very bad and dangerous.

I don't have a problem with bully breeds or sighthounds (in fact I used to really want a sighthound and may still consider a whippet one day) but I DO think you need to be as responsible as possible when dealing with dogs with high prey drive or with dog aggression OR with a guardy temperament or a fearful dog...

I think I must've messed up the way I was explaining things or something? Anyways, I am bowing out. That was all I was trying to say and I feel like you're trying to twist that into something it wasn't meant to be.
__________________
Mia CGC - (5 year old papillon)
Summer TG3 TBAD - (10 year old papillon)
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 11-16-2013, 11:48 AM
sillysally's Avatar
sillysally sillysally is offline
Obey the Toad.
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: A hole in the bottom of the sea.
Posts: 5,003
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenSins View Post
And personally, I'd rather have a dog who is bombproof with people and can handle itself if someone else is irresponsible with their dog, because you know full well that the owner of the other dog is just going to stand there with their thumb up their ass.

If it bothers you less that some asshat allows his giant dog to come charging out of his open garage at another dog in the street, and more that the other dog was leashed but finished the fight he didn't start because he didn't roll over and let the other dog kill him first, that sounds like a "you" issue.

So what are your thoughts on sighthounds?
Personally I don't want my dog killing another dog for any reason. As an owner I need to be ready to protect my dog, with force if necessary---not stand there and hope he comes out in top in a fight to the death. I think it would be a horrible thing to deal with, even if there were no legal consequences for me.

I had a dog hating horse that was leased to a friend when he killed a dachshund at the barn. The dogs owner was a barn employee who knew he risks of letting her very small not horse savvy dog run loose in the barn, it was 100% her mistake, but I still felt absolutely terrible and wish a Snafu had just ignored the dog and let it to on its way.
__________________

~Christina--Mom to:
Sally--8 yr old pit bull mix
Jack--6 yr old Labrador
Sadie & Runt--12 yr old calico DSHs
Pickles & Kiwi--3 yr old white winged parakeets
Yoda--1 yr old Quaker parrot
Solo--12 yr old Senegal parrot
Sheena--Quarter Horse--3/24/86-6/23/11--Rest Easy Sweet Girl~




Labs do it in the lake.


Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:56 AM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site