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  #61  
Old 10-31-2013, 10:47 PM
SizzleDog SizzleDog is offline
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So for those who have shown a dog for someone else, what are your thoughts? Is it more trouble than it's worth in this situation? Should I look into it more and find out the details? I don't want to bite off more than I can chew, but it could be a good opportunity.
I say do it. Handling other dogs is one of the best ways I've learned to be a better handler.
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  #62  
Old 10-31-2013, 10:55 PM
SizzleDog SizzleDog is offline
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That would drive me nuts! I can't think of anything like that related to my breed, which is one reason I like showing it, I guess. Of course, there's subjectivity and what one judge thinks is a beautiful coat, another thinks is too much coat, but nothing that would make a judge automatically dismiss a particular dog.
I have friends in Welshies and they've occasionally had judges dump very nice dogs, only because those some of nice dogs have a blue eye. Would blue eyes in your breed be a similar "kiss of death" as body spots can be in ACDs?
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  #63  
Old 11-01-2013, 06:24 AM
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Elrohwen Elrohwen is offline
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I have friends in Welshies and they've occasionally had judges dump very nice dogs, only because those some of nice dogs have a blue eye. Would blue eyes in your breed be a similar "kiss of death" as body spots can be in ACDs?
You sure it was Welsh springers? I have never ever heard of blue eyes and a google search doesn't turn up anything except one or two dogs with totally white heads (indicating blue eyes from lack of pigment, which isn't good). I'm not sure where they would get it either since blue eyes don't exist in the spaniels or sporting dogs in general. Light "mean" eyes in general are a fault, but that's referring to yellow eyes, which I also haven't seen in person but do pop up from time to time. I think that's a legit fault because it totally changes the soft spaniel expression. I have seen dogs with lighter eyes than I like do extremely well in the ring, so I don't think it has much impact.

Eyes must be brown, so a dog with a blue eye would be like showing up with a dog who wasn't red and white. It wouldn't look like a Welshie, and I would be highly suspicious about whether it was purebred.

Eta: The only way I can imagine blue eyes showing up is as lack of pigment and it could indicate blindness. I wouldn't show a dog with blue eyes or breed it.
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Last edited by Elrohwen; 11-01-2013 at 06:56 AM.
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Old 11-01-2013, 07:52 AM
SizzleDog SizzleDog is offline
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You sure it was Welsh springers? I have never ever heard of blue eyes and a google search doesn't turn up anything except one or two dogs with totally white heads (indicating blue eyes from lack of pigment, which isn't good). I'm not sure where they would get it either since blue eyes don't exist in the spaniels or sporting dogs in general. Light "mean" eyes in general are a fault, but that's referring to yellow eyes, which I also haven't seen in person but do pop up from time to time. I think that's a legit fault because it totally changes the soft spaniel expression. I have seen dogs with lighter eyes than I like do extremely well in the ring, so I don't think it has much impact.

Eyes must be brown, so a dog with a blue eye would be like showing up with a dog who wasn't red and white. It wouldn't look like a Welshie, and I would be highly suspicious about whether it was purebred.

Eta: The only way I can imagine blue eyes showing up is as lack of pigment and it could indicate blindness. I wouldn't show a dog with blue eyes or breed it.
Yep, and I believe she does have points! And yes, I am 100% sure she's a Welshie.

It occurs in Pembroke Welsh Corgis too - not indicative at all of blindness, since the eye is surrounded by pigment. I had a purebred Pembroke with a blue eye, and she had one of the nicest show/performance pedigrees you'd ever see on a Pembroke.

Shoot, I swore I had a picture of the Welshie bitch with the blue eye. Turns out I only have a photo of one of her sisters. The litter is purebred, and most of them are finished champions.


kIMG_3006 by sizzzle_dog, on Flickr
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  #65  
Old 11-01-2013, 07:58 AM
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Yep, and I believe she does have points! And yes, I am 100% sure she's a Welshie.

It occurs in Pembroke Welsh Corgis too - not indicative at all of blindness, since the eye is surrounded by pigment. I had a purebred Pembroke with a blue eye, and she had one of the nicest show/performance pedigrees you'd ever see on a Pembroke.

Shoot, I swore I had a picture of the Welshie bitch with the blue eye. Turns out I only have a photo of one of her sisters. The litter is purebred, and most of them are finished champions.


kIMG_3006 by sizzzle_dog, on Flickr
It definitely happens in corgis, but some herding breeds have the recessive blue eye gene. I've never heard of that existing in the sporting breeds and being a normal thing.

The only ways to get blue eyes that I know of are merle, recessive gene (common in herders and huskies, shows up in beagles, etc), and lack of pigment (usually with a white head or dilute pigment).

I would say it's different from the body spot in ACDs, which is just undesireable and probably reasonably common. In Welshies, the only acceptable color for eyes is brown, so blue eyes would be a severe fault. Like I said, I definitely wouldn't breed on a dog with blue eyes. And it's far far less common than an ACD with a body spot. I can't even find a single picture on Google or reference to it on any breeder's website, outside of the couple white headed dogs. So yeah, I imagine it would be the kiss of death in the breed ring, because it would be very unusual and outside the standard.

ETA: Also didn't mean to imply that the litter was a mix, but that I would be suspicious of mixing further back in the gene pool to introduce the blue eye gene.
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  #66  
Old 11-01-2013, 08:16 AM
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I sent my breeder a note and asked about blue eyes, so we'll see what she says. She's been in the breed for 30 years, so if it happens reasonably often she'll know about it. I still find it so weird that there is no information online.


Oh, and I messaged the breeder in Canada about showing her dog. I just asked if she had found a handler, and if not we can talk about some of the details. I don't want to take on too much responsibility (like full grooming, which I'm bad enough at already), but we might be able to work something out. This woman put a Canadian championship on Watson's sister this summer, so I feel like I'd be doing the right thing to help her out with her girl's American championship.
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  #67  
Old 11-01-2013, 12:33 PM
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Alright, talked to my breeder and she said that she has only ever heard of Welsh having blue eyes due to lack of pigment on the head. In 30 years she had one pup with a blue eye, who was also white on that side of his face. She also knew of a all white pup with blue eyes that turned up in a litter, who was also deaf.

Greenish eyes do turn up occasionally with a flesh colored nose, like a Brittany, and it's acceptable in the breed ring (though uncommon enough that she could only think of a couple examples).

She's never heard of a Welshie with color on the head having a blue eye, the way a corgi might. Sounds like it must have been a one in a million mutation or an extremely rare recessive in that one bitch. Definitely not something anybody is dealing with in the breed ring on a regular basis though, like a body spot on an ACD.
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  #68  
Old 11-10-2013, 05:22 PM
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meepitsmeagan meepitsmeagan is offline
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So, figured I would go ahead and update this thread. I did a handling seminar yesterday with two pros that were extremely nice. Gave me a few good tips I was able to use in the ring this morning.

I ended up getting switched dogs kind of last minute as the owner felt the body spot girl worked better for another gal. So, I ended up with an ACD who already has his Ch title and we went in as one of the specials. We took BOS, which isn't bad.

I was completely calm and ready to go until we walked in the ring and he decided he wanted to meet the dog behind us. I kind of got after him under my breath and he crouched a touch in our initial lineup. However, we worked through it and I felt that for the first time back in for 10 years that we didn't do too bad. That moment at the start really threw me off, though. Should have some pictures on Tuesday!
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  #69  
Old 11-11-2013, 08:29 AM
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We took BOS, which isn't bad.
Awesome! Great job!
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  #70  
Old 11-30-2013, 06:40 PM
crazedACD crazedACD is offline
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Come and find me at the Welsh Springer ring! I'm the tall redhead with freckles, showing the short dog with red hair and freckles. lol I can let you know my armband number once I find out.

I haven't been to Springfield yet, but from what I hear it's huge and chaotic. I was hoping to watch some friends in agility, but I'm going to be lucky if I can find my way to our own ring.
How did you do? I was there Saturday with Fiona, but yeah it was chaotic. I saw lots of Welshies but none that I thought might be you .
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