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  #11  
Old 10-16-2013, 07:51 PM
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^What she said.

I like it when Adrianne gets to a thread before me, then I don't have to post anything.
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  #12  
Old 10-17-2013, 12:54 AM
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I also agree with Adrienne. I love my malinois. I have certain bloodlines for certain traits I want. Would they be great for what Adrienne wants? Maybe not. We've discussed it before in fact.

I've owned two Dutch Shepherds. One was an xDS from knpv lines. He was a super pup and I regretting having to sell him but he went to a police dept to be a narcotics dog. He was not dual purpose only because they did not need a dual purpose dog at that point.

The other was an fci bred boy. He was the exact opposite of my first one, and lacked prey drive. He was so edgy he could not hold an IPO grip. His brother is a FR titles dog but the handler admits he was not an easy train.

Point is, learn. Visit. Watch. Admit honestly what you want. What matters and what does not matter as much. Then find that. In either breed.
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  #13  
Old 10-17-2013, 09:47 AM
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I have always wanted a Dutchie. Not so much now. Lol. I was always on the fence about if I would make a Mal owner or not. Apparently not.

However this thread needs more pictures.
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  #14  
Old 10-17-2013, 12:56 PM
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I want you to know just how serious these dogs are.

:P
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  #15  
Old 10-17-2013, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrose_s View Post
I do recognise they might not fit into the life I need my next dog to lead, and I'm sure one day I'll be happy to work around a dog more if needed but for nextdog I just need a chance to have a dog that's... Easy. Well compared to Quinnie anyway.
I don't know that I'd consider Mals or Dutchies likely to be 'easy', even in your use of the word, nor many lines of working GSDs. There is just soooooo much variety between lines and so much difference in how people describe these dogs. One person's 'defense' is another person's 'civil', which is yet another person's 'fight' for example!

My example for your consideration:
I consider Aeri a stable mal with moderate drives (in the working sense, most would consider her quite high compared to a pet dog). She couldn't be out in public for more than 15 minutes straight without going into overarousal grabbiness (think torn shirts, bruises, but not aggression) until she was about a year old and at 3 she's just now starting to truly control her grabbiness on her own without my guidance when she gets overexcited or confused/frustrated.

She HAS worked with reactive dogs, but she requires a LOT more clarity in handling than any of the other dogs in that setting and I only bring her out to challenge dogs who have done fine with the rest of the crew because her way of interacting with me really seems to stimulate reactive dogs (she's very fast moving and intense - nothing is done slowly/calmly. ever.).

Obviously she's just one dog out of many in the breed, but she's considered a 'starter mal', so I do mention our challenges with that in mind. Se's taught me so, so, so much, but she is not an 'easy' dog in training.
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  #16  
Old 10-17-2013, 05:41 PM
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I think owning a Malinois or a Dutch Shepherd would just be a different kind of learning curve. If you don't already have hand on experience raising one, it could mean having to familiarize yourself and dealing with quirks and issues that never even came up with Quinn.

I do see Mals and Dutchies as "easy" to train in context of training for competitive obedience, performance, or protection sport (as opposed to, say, a dog like Trent who just doesn't have the same upbeat enthusiasm). But easy dogs to live with and integrate into a lifestyle? They're not the first breeds to come to mind. My impression of Mals is that they are reactive dogs - I don't mean dog/human/prey reactive, but rather the dictionary definition of the word. Rapidly responsive, I guess? Especially from what Adrienne and stardogs have said about their experience with Mals in every day situations.

For what it's worth, every Rottweiler I've met has been a huge love bug. Full body wags and slobbering galore. German Shepherds are typically more aloof, especially as they get older. Trent goes back and forth on this - sometimes he cannot care less about the strangers he meets, and other times he is soliciting kisses and head pats left and right. He definitely is a whiner, and from what I've heard his siblings and parents are all fairly vocal dogs.

But the nice thing about the variety within a breed or type is that you can usually find what you are looking for with the right amount of research. That goes for all the breeds you mentioned - so good luck
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Old 10-18-2013, 07:47 AM
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Honestly, it sounds to me like there's two very separate needs here. A dog for sport and a dog to do reactive dog work. While I could and have used a couple of my Belgians for reactive dog work on rare occasions and one of my three GSDs could have been used for it in certain circumstances, I would very much worry about doing that on a regular with either breed. Or a Dutchie. Jagger was great to use with leash reactive bitches because as a boy Belgian his reaction to mean girls will always be "awww you don't mean it...". However, a large reactive male dog would have been an entirely different story. Whim doesn't want any trouble and can be good with reactive dogs but I strongly suspect if that was part of her every day life, it would make her reactive over time. My other girl Belgians would all take offense to dogs getting too snarky with them. And Roust is too naturally reactive to strange dogs reacting to ever consider that. I have worked a lot with him to teach him that he is not to react just because someone else does. Jora, my very working temperament GSD was very same sex aggressive with other bitches in the household but very tolerant of dogs outside of the family. Still, if a big dog really came at her, she would want have wanted to fight. She'd have listened to me and not reacted on that but she really would have wanted to. The other two GSDs - no way, they were both prone to being reactive as it was.

As a sometimes breeder, I'd be very hesitant to sell a puppy to someone who wanted to use the dog regularly for reactive dog training. You really can't always tell how a puppy will feel about other dogs as an adult. And IME these breeds are very malleable and already prone to being reactive towards other dogs, so repeated exposure to reactive dogs could bring out the worse in them.

The other stuff, you could probably find a dog of any of the breeds to suit you. And some behavior is obviously a matter of what the owner chooses to allow or not. You don't have to allow your dog to bite you or rip your clothes on a regular basis just because you have a "working dog". For me, people can be a bit too permissive with their young working dogs, worrying about decreasing their drive if they enforce manners. If manners ruin your dog for sport, the dog probably wasn't all that well suited to begin with.
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  #18  
Old 10-18-2013, 09:12 AM
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I have known and followed Erin's training all along and she never actively encouraged nor allowed the clothes tearing in an effort to safeguard Aeris drives. Just like I never allow Sloan to flair up over running dogs but it doesn't mean it I easy to manage nor does it go away.

Otherwise, I agree, and I actually worry for dogs being used regularly in reactor dog classes, I think it would definitely wear on a shepherd type breed.
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  #19  
Old 10-18-2013, 09:32 AM
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For what it's worth, out of 16 GSDs that I regularly interact with and know well, I'd say not one of them would be good for reactive dogs. I think some would start that way but then get snarky later.

And... I have been redirecting Rasta whenever he grabs my clothes or me....but it's going to take a lot of redirecting and rewarding and there is no end in sight for it. And it obviously hasn't been encouraged since he is 7 weeks.
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Old 10-18-2013, 09:55 AM
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I guess I missed where anyone was hoping to use the dog as the teaching dog for a reactive dog class.

I've never met a Belgian Shepherd (any type) that I would point at as an appropriate candidate for that sort of job. I've met quite a few, mostly Groens and Mals, that might benefit from being a student in such a class.
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