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  #31  
Old 06-15-2006, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by elegy
there have been numerous newspaper articles in numerous newspapers about it. it's an old story. i think the actual transplant was done in december. do a google search for it. i'm sure you'll find plenty.

as far as "what supposedly happened", that's generally all we have to go on in dog-bite cases. and victim reports are notoriously inaccurate, which makes sense- being bitten by a dog is a traumatic thing! why should this lady and this dog be any different than the rest? because it's a lab?

I did do an ask.com search for it and all that came up was the face transplant articles.

It wasn't to traumatic for her, she was unconscious from drug use! It's different because most people aren't "whacked out" on drugs when they are bitten, it doesn't matter about the breed.
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  #32  
Old 06-15-2006, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by dr2little
I'm not sure what everyone thinks has been missing. All of the international reports (mostly from the US stations) that I've seen have clearly said that a womens face was chewed off by her LABRADOR.
I know that unless it's a pit or other bully breed it's not considered a sexy enough story for the news lately, but this one was, from what I saw, very clearly reported. I thought that they were using the opposite to draw attention....OMG, THIS WAS HER LAB!!! A whole story was done by Barbwa Wawa, and the lab part was one of the things first mentioned.
Someone else posted about how out of it she was, didn't even know her face was gone till she tried to light up......ghastly!

Well, I didn't see the story or hear about it and still haven't found anything online other than the face transplant articles. Who cares what breed it was??? Geez, ya'll need to get off your soap boxes. This woman was a druggie that doesn't even know what happened.
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  #33  
Old 06-15-2006, 01:03 PM
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What I don't understand is weren't pittbulls bred to fight dogs?

So why do they attack people if it has to do with their "blood" and what they've been bred to do?

dr2little made a statement saying that pittbulls aren't like any other dog... In my experience with Hades of course, I beg to differ. Of course the vast majority of pittbulls need extra work, but I know of many pitts where I train that have been raised just like any other dog. Yes, it does seem that Hades has a bit more dog aggressiveness, but when it comes to people he's a big ham, same as the other pitts at my school.

Maybe it's just their personalities (the pitts I've come into contact with that seem like regular old dogs) but I don't think that pittbulls have to be raised any differently as long as how their being raised is appropriate, ex) proper training, socialization, good leader in the household, these are all things that should be done with any breed of dog and if done properly will work just as well with pitts.

I guess what really gets me is pittbulls were not bred for human aggressiveness, but to be dog aggressive. So why are they so much more prone than other animals to "turn" on owners or people in general? Perhaps it's just because their not properly trained but it just seems odd...
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  #34  
Old 06-15-2006, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by LabBreeder
Well, I didn't see the story or hear about it and still haven't found anything online other than the face transplant articles. Who cares what breed it was??? Geez, ya'll need to get off your soap boxes. This woman was a druggie that doesn't even know what happened.
LabBreeder, what the heck are you talking about.....soapboxes? Why would you quote my post with that response. Nothing in my article had any lecture or hint of a soapbox speech. Please re-read my post and explain to me why exactly I deserve your resppnse???
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  #35  
Old 06-15-2006, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LabBreeder
Well, I didn't see the story or hear about it and still haven't found anything online other than the face transplant articles. Who cares what breed it was??? Geez, ya'll need to get off your soap boxes. This woman was a druggie that doesn't even know what happened.
See, this is exactly how people with Pits feel when people slam thier dogs
Nobody was slamming Labs, just stating that had it been a pit that done that, there would have been a lot more press about it.
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  #36  
Old 06-15-2006, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Roxy's CD
What I don't understand is weren't pittbulls bred to fight dogs?

So why do they attack people if it has to do with their "blood" and what they've been bred to do?

dr2little made a statement saying that pittbulls aren't like any other dog... In my experience with Hades of course, I beg to differ. Of course the vast majority of pittbulls need extra work, but I know of many pitts where I train that have been raised just like any other dog. Yes, it does seem that Hades has a bit more dog aggressiveness, but when it comes to people he's a big ham, same as the other pitts at my school.

Maybe it's just their personalities (the pitts I've come into contact with that seem like regular old dogs) but I don't think that pittbulls have to be raised any differently as long as how their being raised is appropriate, ex) proper training, socialization, good leader in the household, these are all things that should be done with any breed of dog and if done properly will work just as well with pitts.

I guess what really gets me is pittbulls were not bred for human aggressiveness, but to be dog aggressive. So why are they so much more prone than other animals to "turn" on owners or people in general? Perhaps it's just because their not properly trained but it just seems odd...
CD...I think you need to read the whole post for context. I'm on your side, or rather the side of the pit...why would I volunteer behavior counselling for that particular rescue if I wasn't protective of this breed. My point was/is this: Pitbulls are much more tenacious than any other breed with their strength. Being a terrier, and given the fact that they are a finisher (not my opion, just plain fact), they need an owner fwith an undersanding of their capabilities. I never said one derogatory thing about them. People are so quick to defend (not you CD) that they put these dogs in harms way by NOT acknowledging what their strengths and weaknesses are. I see what happens when a great owner has this breed and allows it to shine, and I've seen the flip side. Again, just read what I wrote before you rush to judgement about me and how I feel about a breed that I care about. I never said that pits were human aggressive.
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  #37  
Old 06-15-2006, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxy's CD
I guess what really gets me is pittbulls were not bred for human aggressiveness, but to be dog aggressive. So why are they so much more prone than other animals to "turn" on owners or people in general? Perhaps it's just because their not properly trained but it just seems odd...
It is a myth that Pit Bulls are more apt to turn on their owners.


I would argue just the opposite. Consider all the abuse they endure it is amazing they don't bite more people. Considering the idiots who buy them to enhance their image and neglect and abuse their Pit Bulls, it completely amazes me they don't turn more often.

They are so submissive to humans that they take more abuse than the majority of breeds. My experiences with Rotts and GSDs, they will usually not take the abuse without striking back.

There are several reasons why they (some Pit Bulls) have started becoming more human aggressive. Pit Bulls really really adore their owners and they will try their best to please. When these Macho/insecure fools are try real hard to get their dogs to be aggressive.....sometimes it works. Also many Pit Bulls (especially in the inner-cities and rural south) are rarely purebred Pits any more. Some unscupulus breeders have been breeding Mastiff breeds and other breed to get bigger/stockier dogs...this has resulted in Pit Bulls that have guard dogs in their "pedigree".

Many people in the inner city of Milwaukee (I work there) have no clue how to raise dogs properly. They think Socialization is a BAD thing. They think showing any kindness to their dogs is a form of "weakness" and will make their dog weak. I have conversations with Kids and Adults (I work at a high school) and it is sickening, it is almost a pathological culture of dog abuse and neglect.
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  #38  
Old 06-15-2006, 05:12 PM
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dr2little I agree that the people who can't admit certain breed specific characterisitics are part of the problem. (Ex) It wouldn't do anyone any good if I didn't admit that Hades has some "dog on dog aggression", BTW he's getting much better in his group classes!) The other half is as Amstaffer said, people who just get the breed to be cool, or tough.

Thank you Amstaffer for clearing that up for me. It's been on my mind for some time.

I also definitely agree that if in this case the animal that attacked was a pitt it would have been totally blown up and "pitt bull killer/attack/rampage etc" would be on the headline of every newspaper.

Depending on the situation I do get defensive with pitbulls this isn't one of the situations It seems that most people on this thread realize that pittbulls aren't just killers.... I understand that there are many pitts out there that are aggressive though, I met a lot of them! But I know that those dogs are that way because of their owners. There is no other explanation, other than medical of course. I didn't do any sort of "special training" and my guy turned out just fine.

On the side: As dr2little stated way back, I think the reason all "pit bite cases" are blown up is because of the damage done. Most of the time when a lab or golden bite, they bite once and bugger off. Usually once a pit bites they'll maul the victim.
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  #39  
Old 06-15-2006, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr2little
I see what happens when a great owner has this breed and allows it to shine, and I've seen the flip side. Again, just read what I wrote before you rush to judgement about me and how I feel about a breed that I care about. I never said that pits were human aggressive.
I think where I and many other pit bull owners go wrong or let our gander get up is that we a good sensible and loving owners and raise wonderful animals. We don't realize that how we treat our dogs is "abnormal" and that the average dog owner doesn't raise their dogs as well and thus don't have the same out come.

I actually think in many ways a Pit Bull takes more abuse and neglect from their owners. I think that because if you had the same people in the inner cities raising Labs or Goldens (Pit Bulls are by FAR the most popular dog in the inner cities) you would have at least as much problems with them. The reason that things get so tricky with pit bulls is that when they do go "bad" they are "finishers" and the media just loves to cover a story that involves a pit bull.
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  #40  
Old 06-15-2006, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Bailey+Ralph
See, this is exactly how people with Pits feel when people slam thier dogs
Nobody was slamming Labs, just stating that had it been a pit that done that, there would have been a lot more press about it.

Your right Caren, there probably would have been more press. All I can say about that is when people stop making certain breeds vicious and making them want to attack (dogs or people) then those breeds won't be the center of news releases when someone is bitten. You never hear of a dachsund biting a child, but it happened last week in my neighborhood. It didn't make the paper, but he's still a very annoying and agressive dog. If dachsund's were known for "vicious" behavior I'm sure it would have made the local news. As long as pits and other bull breeds (or "attack" dogs) are bred wrong, trained wrong, treated badly, etc. they will continue to be the subject of stories even though that's wrong.
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