Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > The Breeding Ground


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-05-2013, 06:38 AM
AliciaD's Avatar
AliciaD AliciaD is offline
On second thought...
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,559
Default Question about contracts

As I am fantasy breeder hunting I have looked at a few contracts that were readily available on the breeders websites and I've noticed 3 contracts stated that they reserve the right to breed any of their bitches to any stud worthy dog at no cost.

I don't know... I just feel like after two years of showing or working the dog, getting him health tested, making sure that breeding him betters the breed etc etc that yeah, its great and all that you bred him, but no you cannot breed whatever bitch you want to him. He's my dog, I put in a lot of time, work, energy, and money to make sure he is breed worthy.

But then again, my two dogs are rescues and their contracts were basically "you must neuter" so I don't really have any experience with contracts. Is this weird?

I mean you would hope that you would like your breeder, their dogs, and their breeding program enough that studding wouldn't be some great pain- but to sign a contract saying that you can't refuse just squicks me out.
__________________

Signature by aadufield, on Flickr

Proud owner of Cameron, a Chow Chow mix, and Duncan, a http://www.chazhound.com/forums/t141489/.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-05-2013, 07:16 AM
meepitsmeagan's Avatar
meepitsmeagan meepitsmeagan is offline
Meagan&TheCattleDogCrew
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Southwest Michigan
Posts: 2,466
Default

That seems weird to me. I mean, unless it's co owned I've never heard of that. Normally they will have a certain time period in which you must get them neutered/spayed... I guess if you were thinking about breeding yourself you would go for the breeding contract. I don't know. Maybe I'm sheltered.
__________________


Harlow 2010 Boxer :: Rider 2012 ACDx :: Tulsa 2014 ACD

http://trailingcattle.blogspot.com/
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-05-2013, 08:18 AM
Shai's Avatar
Shai Shai is offline
& the Muttly Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,027
Default

Practices vary somewhat by breed by yeah that would raise a flag for me. Heck, Mira's a co-own and her contract still isn't nearly as one-sided or heavy-handed as that.

Now for a male puppy having "free" breed back rights is more common, usually a set number, but I'd still want some say in the situation.
__________________

ARCHX U-CD Kim MX MXJ NF CL3-SF RL3/2X/1X-COE CGC -- Golden Ditzhund, b. ~Mar'07
MACH ARCHX U-CD Webster MXB MJB RL3/2X/1X-COE CGC -- Flying Houdini, b. ~Jun'07
Mira CD JH MX MXB MXJ MJB CGC WCX -- Princess Cheeseface, b. Jul'09
Lodin -- Crazy Monkeybean, b. Dec'13
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-05-2013, 08:52 AM
SevenSins's Avatar
SevenSins SevenSins is offline
APBTs & One Crazy Banana
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 277
Default

Doesn't raise a red flag to me at all. As a breeder, we only have so much room and so many dogs we can reasonably spend enough time with in the day, train, show, and work. And as a breeder, it doesn't do much good for your breeding program if all of those "spots" are filled with males. It isn't easy to use a bitch in your own breeding program once you place her in another home, nor is it responsible to place one on a contract *requiring* the owner to breed that bitch, except in very specific circumstances. It's much easier to breed a litter for yourself, keep your pick bitch, and place the nicest males in the litter on contracts that allow you to wait those dogs out, see how nice they are, see how they perform, and either use them or collect them for use later down the line in your breeding program. And if it's a responsible, ethical breeder, that breeder is going to have more knowledge of their own lines and have more time, money, experience, effort and research invested in producing that dog than the owner could even begin to hold a candle to. Just because a male is placed on a contract that enables the breeder to use him freely, doesn't mean they're going to breed the hell out of him, or even ever breed to him at all. This is where thoroughly researching and trusting the breeder you get your dog from and carefully reading a contract comes in to play, but having a "it's my toy now and I'm not sharing" attitude from the beginning tells me that you're going to have a fairly limited amount of quality breeders to choose from, especially if you don't already have years of experience in the breed you're looking at. Tell me... Why would I, as a breeder, want to essentially, genetically "throw away" the nicest male in a litter to someone that doesn't respect me and the effort I've put into my breeding program?

Last edited by SevenSins; 08-05-2013 at 09:09 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-05-2013, 09:55 AM
Shai's Avatar
Shai Shai is offline
& the Muttly Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,027
Default

For clarity -- I read the OP as applying to any dog from these breeders, not just males. Upon a re-read, it looks like maybe this contract is specific to male puppies? In which case I have less of an issue with it.

I prefer bitches as a rule and so automatically thought in terms of having my girl pup taken back for breeding whenever the breeder wanted, which would be absurdin most circumstances especially for a performance dog.
__________________

ARCHX U-CD Kim MX MXJ NF CL3-SF RL3/2X/1X-COE CGC -- Golden Ditzhund, b. ~Mar'07
MACH ARCHX U-CD Webster MXB MJB RL3/2X/1X-COE CGC -- Flying Houdini, b. ~Jun'07
Mira CD JH MX MXB MXJ MJB CGC WCX -- Princess Cheeseface, b. Jul'09
Lodin -- Crazy Monkeybean, b. Dec'13
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-05-2013, 10:55 AM
SpringerLover's Avatar
SpringerLover SpringerLover is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: B-ville
Posts: 3,139
Default

I certainly don't think that if I A) paid full "purchase price" for a puppy that the breeder should get to use the dog free of charge (male or female); B) I don't get any say in the choice of mate, I should be required to allow the breeding.

But then again, I don't trust very many people with intact dogs.
__________________
Megan and the Aroha English Springer Spaniels
To Infinity and Beyond! ARCH URO1 UCD Buzz NAC NCC S-NJC O-TN-N TG-N WV-N RL2 RLVX RN ThD CGC 5/4/1998-5/20/2014
The Hallway Monitor Bailey VCD1 RE NAC NCC TN-N CGC 14 years
Puzzle Piece Gabby RLV 8 years
ESRA foster Diego 12 years
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-05-2013, 11:39 AM
SevenSins's Avatar
SevenSins SevenSins is offline
APBTs & One Crazy Banana
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 277
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringerLover View Post
I certainly don't think that if I A) paid full "purchase price" for a puppy that the breeder should get to use the dog free of charge (male or female)
Why? I'm only considering males in my replies for the reasons I mentioned in my first, by the way. You specifically mention that they shouldn't be able to do it "free of charge." So you're saying that you'd be fine with it if the breeder was paying you a stud fee to use a dog they've already put thousands of dollars into producing, to produce a litter to improve their breeding program further, and likely won't see a cent or profit from? Chances are, the dog you bought came from such an arrangement in the first place.

Quote:
B) I don't get any say in the choice of mate, I should be required to allow the breeding.
Again, why? If you did your homework and actually picked a trustworthy, responsible and ethical breeder to get your dog from, wouldn't you assume that the breeder you picked was knowledgeable enough to make appropriate breeding decisions for their breeding program without the input of perhaps a less experienced owner that wanted a dog for sport but doesn't necessarily have the knowledge of bloodlines and pedigrees, structure and biomechanics, and the long term goals of the breeder's program?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-05-2013, 12:12 PM
release the hounds release the hounds is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,073
Default

I appreciate a good breeder as much as the next, but some are just ****ing obnoxious and think far, far to highly of themselves. If you paid thousands to breed your puppies but can't afford a stud fee, then maybe you're in the wrong business

i'm sure breeders like that are in no short supply of suckers to sell to, but I wouldn't be one of them in that situation. I'm sorry, if I pay for a puppy or dog, it is mine. Now if you want to give me a puppy and train and title and have a bit of input on any future breeding, i'm cool with that. I do it all the time with people I know.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-05-2013, 12:16 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,036
Default

I co-own Logan, and his breeder can use him as a stud if she wants to. Do I think she ever will? No, but she has the option. Am I okay with that? Yes, yes I am. It's easy to ship semen. My breeder knows what she's doing, and I have complete confidence that if she DID want to breed Logan, she would choose the right bitch for him, and not just breed for the sake of breeding. So, with my chosen breeder, I would be fine with that contract.

I guess my point is that you MUST trust your breeder. If you think your breeder will breed any bitch to any dog just for the sake of having puppies, you probably shouldn't choose that breeder to begin with, regardless of what their contract is like.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-05-2013, 01:07 PM
JessLough JessLough is offline
Love My Mutt <3
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 13,160
Default

Would I buy from a breeder with a contract like that? Nope. Not unless a good friend happened to be breeding.

But, there are other breeders out there, and I'm confident I could find one I liked without that stipulation.

Do I think it's wrong? Nope. They want to breed the dogs, they can put anything they want in the contract. Just not for me.
__________________
Ella: 3 year old female ferret
Nacho: ~8 year old male ferret

Goodbye, Rosey. You were the best girl I could have asked for. 10/15/96-03/08/13
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:46 PM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site