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  #61  
Old 09-05-2013, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
That says that artists have no talent, they merely luck into designs, yes? Tey don't spend time considering, researching, weighing options, they just throw **** together and say, take it or leave it?
No?

In all seriousness, is it really some kind of unbelievably mind-boggling notion that two creative people using similar tools to make similar products might conceivably have similar ideas for a design?
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  #62  
Old 09-05-2013, 08:22 AM
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AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
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It's not mind boggling because as an art student I know most artists draw from their teachers. Ana has been making leather gear long before any of the others, it's to be expected they draw from her. We were all on the pit bull forum, ages ago, when she first considered making rope gear (which last, to this day). I am by no means surprised some of her designs follow closely the designs of those before her. Some of them are unique, some draw from others bordering on copying.

It's not just her, nor is this unique to collars, this discussion has been brought up within tags (FT, AA, MDM, et.) and additional leather style collars unique from the EL, PC, CGC, and KCs of the world.

There are laws that protect ideas without copy rights having been followed, there are cease and desist letters that seem to keep most everyone in the community out of court. My point is, an artist will draw from those before them but the true test is showing what they can produce beyond their teachers.
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  #63  
Old 09-05-2013, 08:35 AM
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These first world problems.. oh dear lol I really must be missing something here, I don't get the tension.

I could understand ellas or paco squabbling, but eeeeerrrrr... They obviously don't seem to care??

Don't like a product? Don't shop there. Don't like the customer service? Don't shop there.

I'm sure one company is clever and able enough to take action if they feel there is copyright infringement and don't need a gaggle of fans to scream it from the hills either.

Weird things people get upset about....

Wars? Rape? Nooooooooo collars!! Lol

I'd be upset if I had personal poor experience, but meh, I just wouldn't give them my business, done and done. Next!
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  #64  
Old 09-05-2013, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
These first world problems.. oh dear lol I really must be missing something here, I don't get the tension.

I could understand ellas or paco squabbling, but eeeeerrrrr... They obviously don't seem to care??

Don't like a product? Don't shop there. Don't like the customer service? Don't shop there.

I'm sure one company is clever and able enough to take action if they feel there is copyright infringement and don't need a gaggle of fans to scream it from the hills either.

Weird things people get upset about....

Wars? Rape? Nooooooooo collars!! Lol

I'd be upset if I had personal poor experience, but meh, I just wouldn't give them my business, done and done. Next!
It's funny how you seem to be the only one getting upset and worked up over this
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  #65  
Old 09-05-2013, 08:39 AM
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You're possibly making this a bigger deal on your end, Dizzy.
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  #66  
Old 09-05-2013, 08:57 AM
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Whoa,fascinating thread!.
I bet the OP did not expect that!.
I've ordered,from both PC & EL.
I wanted an affordable,every-day collar and that's what I got,with the TAG COLLARS.
Consumer service was excellent,with both company.
Everything was done,by FB messages cos I live in FR and have no complaint.
Yes,their designs are similar but each bring something different.
I think PC is becoming the Hermes of dog collars,mostly,due to their high price & popularity but doesn't make EL,a bad company.
I,just,hope that the dog collars,from PC have the durability of a Hermes saddle.
I expect a lot more from a PC than a EL,mostly due,to the price tag.
The reason why I ordered from EL was because I was given a giftcard and I was surprised at the postage difference,in both company.
For FR:PC asks 25$ while EL asks for 9,50$ so quite the difference!.
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  #67  
Old 09-05-2013, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
My point is, an artist will draw from those before them but the true test is showing what they can produce beyond their teachers.
I'm going to struggle to articulate this well. But honestly, while I appreciate the work that goes into making a good quality collar, at the same time my interest in collars is very concrete. Abstract ideals of whether a collar design tests the maker as an artist are a little bit beyond my line in the sand as far as whether I like their collars or will purchase from them. If I like the design, and I like the service, and I like the collar, then okay.

I get that people have had bad experiences with EL. I haven't had them myself. I like their collars, I've been happy with their service. And if that's the only place this thread went then that would be all I had to say. But the accusations of theft are really giving me an icky feeling (and not about EL). Honestly this thread is the first I've heard those accusations, and I don't even know which designs or how many designs. But if I searched every collar maker I could find on the internet (jeepers, on etsy alone) and put all their designs side by side in a giant spreadsheet, there would be some overlap in designs. I'm quite sure at least some of them have probably been making collars for a long time without ever even hearing of Paco or Ella's or each other. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and sometimes coincidence is just coincidence.
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  #68  
Old 09-05-2013, 09:13 AM
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There are many different ways to decorate a collar, and there are a great handful of collar maker who have VERY unique work. Yeah, it's a strip of leather, some rivets, decorations... but there are SO many variations.

It's like saying it's just a canvas and some paints. Aren't all paintings the same?

In the business of collar making (or any goods, really) you need to be aware of what other companies are making. If Abercrombie's logo is a moose and you decide to make a line of Polo shirts with little moose logos, you'd better be prepared for a lawsuit.

I do feel like Ella's Lead steals collar designs. As referenced in the blog posting above, a design from Facebook (talked about by a Facebook group) was copied by Becca a few days later. You can say it's a coincidence, but when it happens over and over again, the coincidence excuses kinda gets... lame.

Anyway, I had ordered 3 chihuahua collars from Ella's Lead, and they were bad. The way I was treated for saying the product wasn't the quality I expected was absurd. Screen shots are listed in the blog post linked a few posts above.

Also, I've never heard of any collar company giving away free products to bad mouth competitors. For me, the Ella's Lead collars spoke for themselves.

Would you be happy if you spent $30 a piece on these collars?


20110808-DSC_3143 by Chihuahuaesque, on Flickr


20110808-DSC_3156 by Chihuahuaesque, on Flickr


20110808-DSC_3155 by Chihuahuaesque, on Flickr

I didn't purchase them when Ella's Lead started. I purchased them a little over 2 years ago.
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  #69  
Old 09-05-2013, 09:14 AM
JessLough JessLough is offline
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It's funny how you seem to be the only one getting upset and worked up over this
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
Weird things people get upset about....

Wars? Rape? Nooooooooo collars!! Lol
Not that I see anybody that I would call upset, but some people DO have the capacity to be upset about more than one thing at once...
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  #70  
Old 09-05-2013, 09:14 AM
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It wasn't accusations. There are a lot more links where that one came from. I chose not to post them. The only people getting their panties in a wad are EL customers.

The thread asked for opinions on EL collars. I merely stated my interaction with them and their IMO poor business practices. Nothing more, nothing less. Others have different experiences and that is wonderful but it doesn't mean you get to discount others experiences.
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