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  #21  
Old 07-14-2013, 11:58 AM
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I haven't looked at this for a long time. I was under the impression that Martin was kind of wondering around, Zimmerman started following him in the car. Zimmerman had a history of calling police for inconsequential things and was told by the dispatcher not to follow him. Martin was on the phone to his girlfriend and was notably creeped out and tried to walk away, Zimmerman followed him on foot, there was a confrontation, Martin got the better of Zimmerman and Zimmerman shot him dead.

I've skimmed the wiki articles and it seems Martin's cell phone wasn't recorded, and Zimmerman says he wasn't following him, but when to check a street sign when Martin popped out of the bushes and assaulted him??

Whatever. I think instigating a fight with someone by stalking them and then shooting them when you're losing a little is very unjust, but I guess it's still technically self-defense as long as Zimmerman didn't instigate physical aggression. And to my understanding, all that we really KNOW is that there was a confrontation and Zimmerman was getting the worst of it. Maybe Martin was unreasonably aggressive, even considering he was being stalked. From what I've read the prosecution didn't prove their case beyond reasonable doubt.
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  #22  
Old 07-14-2013, 12:01 PM
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He was 17. I would hope by the time someone is 17 they know that there are other ways to handle a situation than attacking someone. IMO there's a point when the 'kids will be kids' argument goes out the window.

I'm not happy he died and I'm not saying he deserved to die. But if you want to live a life where you react to everything with violence you shouldn't be surprised when that's how it ends.

People follow me all the time. I'm a minority in the middle of the country and I have issues making and keeping eye contact. I know I look guilty/shifty to people who don't know me. Even at 17. Heck even at 14. Actually never have I thought the correct way to confront someone who was following me was to tackle them down punch them in the face and slam their head repeatedly into the ground.
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  #23  
Old 07-14-2013, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
Well, I'm certainly glad that some armed, untrained man with a vigilante complex can pursue me while walking home and end up killing me if we get into a fight. Do I agree that the prosecution went with 2nd degree murder charges? No. But Zimmerman walking away is disgusting.

Meanwhile, an African American mother gets 20 years in prison for firing warning shots near her abusive husband.
Would you really pick a fight with someone you knew was carrying a gun? I don't know, maybe because I'm female, but if some guy is following me at night and I'm scared, I, sure as heck, am not confronting him. I'm running home, especially if I know my family is there. That's all Martin had to do, and he chose not to. Did he deserve to die? No, but I doubt Zimmerman was really aiming to kill him. Can you say for sure when Martin would have stopped beating Zimmerman? Maybe when he stopped moving?

I don't agree with that woman getting 20 years at all! That judge needs to be kicked off the bench and the charges dropped. So where's the outraged media coverage for this? Where's Jesse and Al?
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  #24  
Old 07-14-2013, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
Well, I'm certainly glad that some armed, untrained man with a vigilante complex can pursue me while walking home and end up killing me if we get into a fight. Do I agree that the prosecution went with 2nd degree murder charges? No. But Zimmerman walking away is disgusting.

Meanwhile, an African American mother gets 20 years in prison for firing warning shots near her abusive husband.
I think it's disingenuous to play the race card while comparing two totally different cases and totally different trials. You could say the same thing with 1283848 cases where only white people where involved....
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  #25  
Old 07-14-2013, 12:08 PM
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I'm disgusted that he was found not guilty.
And disgusted by this thread.

If you don't think it's about race you're not paying attention and you CLEARLY didn't listen to what Zimmerman had to say on his 911 calls. Martin "fit the description" of the people who had been breaking and entering in the neighbourhood - in what way?
Because he was black.

My black friend was walking home one night and suddenly found himself surrounded by six cops with their guns drawn yelling PUT YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR, PUT YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR.
Because he "fit the description" of some guys who had held up a bank earlier in the day.
By which they mean he was black. And that was the end of how he fit the description.
Same ****ing thing.

Sick to my stomach and even more sick that I knew this was how it was going to turn out.
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  #26  
Old 07-14-2013, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JessLough View Post
It makes me sick that people can be all "the kid was a punk! HE DESERVED TO DIE". I... What? He's a 17 year old. He's a KID. Because I'm sure everybody else never went through a rough patch or never tested boundaries.
Pretty much this.

I haven't followed the case enough to know what I think. I also know I wasn't there and refuse to decide the fate that someone should get based on the things I have heard.

What I do know is that anytime someone dies it's a sad thing to me. I also don't think anyone, including a 17 year old kid (And yes, I do consider that a kid), deserves to die. I don't care if he was a "would be" felon, if he spits on seniors in his spare time or said horrible things to people. I find it disturbing that people are not only ok with it but act like it's a good thing. I still don't think it's right that this ended with a dead kid and another man who's life is not going to be easy and who, if he's a decent human being, will be living with the death of someone on his hands for the rest of his life.

I find the idea of vigilant actions scary but again, I wasn't there. I don't know what transpired and I won't play judge and jury. But I will continue being sad for the life lost.
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  #27  
Old 07-14-2013, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoko View Post
He was 17. I would hope by the. ime someone is 17 they know that there are other ways to handle a situation than attacking someone. IMO there's a point when the 'kids will be kids' argument goes out the window.

I'm not happy he died and I'm not saying he deserved to die. But if you want to live a life where you react to everything with violence you shouldn't be surprised when that's how it ends.

People follow me all the time. I'm a minority in the middle of the country and I have issues making and keeping eye contact. I know I look guilty/shifty to people who don't know me. Even at 17. Heck even at 14. Actually never have I thought the correct way to confront someone who was following me was to tackle them down punch them in the face and slam their head repeatedly into the ground.
So it's OK for somebody to kill somebody when they don't feel safe, but not for somebody to attack somebody when they don't feel safe? "You can follow sonebody just fine, but youre not allowed to protect yourself when being followed!"

I'm 22. I will do anything to avoid confrontation. You can bet that I'll do whatever it takes to protect myself when somebody is following me.
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  #28  
Old 07-14-2013, 12:15 PM
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what are neighborhood watchers supposed to do , but follow and phone police. that is what they are giving their time for , kinda the whole reason for the program.

this was NOT Vigilantism , this was a bad situation that escalated into a horrible one.
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  #29  
Old 07-14-2013, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
I'm disgusted that he was found not guilty.
And disgusted by this thread.

If you don't think it's about race you're not paying attention and you CLEARLY didn't listen to what Zimmerman had to say on his 911 calls. Martin "fit the description" of the people who had been breaking and entering in the neighbourhood - in what way?
Because he was black.
If the only description they had was 'younger black male possibly teen early twenties' why would it have been wrong for him to say that? What was the description he had? How are you sure that's not all he had?

Also it wasn't Zimmerman who was using racial slurs in the phone call leading up to the confrontation it was Martin.

Quote:
So it's OK for somebody to kill somebody when they don't feel safe, but not for somebody to attack somebody when they don't feel safe? "You can follow sonebody just fine, but youre not allowed to protect yourself when being followed!"
I think there's a big difference between realizing that someone is following you but hasn't done anything and deciding to assault them instead of getting home or calling 911 yourself and having someone slamming your head into the ground repeatedly and defending yourself.

Following someone isn't illegal assaulting someone is.
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  #30  
Old 07-14-2013, 12:18 PM
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Sorry ... At 17 you are considered an adult by the law here, which I agree with.

I also think that Zimmerman didnt mean to shoot, perhaps a right for the gun ensued & it went off? Who knows.

The race card is such an easy scape goat, Zimmerman also gave a detailed dis description of the suspect, including what he was wearing & how tall he was.

There is a difference btw "testing boundaries" & real criminal behavior, I don't think anyone is happy the kid died & no one wants to hurt someone else, but in a situation where it's there life or mine ... I'm gonna pic mine, regardless of what color they are.
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