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Old 07-09-2013, 11:22 PM
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Default Mia doing some interior searches

I'm really happy with how far she's come along. I know a few of you were interested and I posted some videos of her beginning training a few months ago.

The first search was actually pretty difficult so I'm surprised she got it that fast!




We have never used those spots for searching ever before either. The table and the shelves are new.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:31 PM
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XD to Mia in the shelf. How cool it would be to have a dog that small. Lol!

She did fantastic! Way to go Mia!

I haven't practiced Rider in a while, I should get some boxes out tomorrow.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:47 PM
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We hadn't practiced in weeks. Mia LIGHTS UP when we play the 'find it' game.

Summer is going a bit slower. We're on week 13 of her training and she's still needing boxes and paired odor + food to keep her attention. I think it's starting to click though with her.

I'm surprised how much I've gotten into it. I thought I'd just take one class for fun. More people should get involved.

And you should take video of Rider.
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Old 07-10-2013, 06:48 AM
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It was really the same for me! I just did it because I wanted a class where I thought Rider and I could bond a little more, but didn't want to do agility or anything. Working with the instructor on his drive issues really helped. We were mainly still in pairing, but did some just birch finds as well. Our last class kind of discouraged me (which it shouldn't, I knew we were moving a touch too fast on one aspect) so I gave him a break. However, he was doing really well there for a bit!

I will work him tonight and see if I can't get Danielle out to get some vids!
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:11 AM
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You should definitely keep it up! My dogs both love the game. Summer is taking to it slower though. She has all the enthusiasm in the world but hasn't up until this week really gotten the game.

What problems were you having with rider? It is interesting talking to the few other people I know who train odor alerts but there are so many ways to teach it. I have ended up doing things quite differently than my instructors suggest especially when it comes to the alert.

I think it's a great exercise and really gets their little brains going. I think it's good for Summer too to teach her some independent thought too.
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
You should definitely keep it up! My dogs both love the game. Summer is taking to it slower though. She has all the enthusiasm in the world but hasn't up until this week really gotten the game.

What problems were you having with rider? It is interesting talking to the few other people I know who train odor alerts but there are so many ways to teach it. I have ended up doing things quite differently than my instructors suggest especially when it comes to the alert.

I think it's a great exercise and really gets their little brains going. I think it's good for Summer too to teach her some independent thought too.
Oh Rider man. He's a special boy. If he couldn't find the hide by the second time around, he would just quit. He would literally start crying and just lay down. Lol. He is very methodical about his searches. And slooooow. If there are boxes on the ground, that's where he starts. If none are to be found, he would go around the perimeter of the room, and so on and so forth.

So, we tried a few different things like changing up treats and that helped a little, but bringing in the clicker was the money shot for me. He gets so excited when the clicker comes out and he drives much better. At first, the instructor was hesitant about using a marker because they don't allow it in competition, but I had a feeling it would be a game changer so I did it anyways. I also started targeting the container, just so that when he found the hide he would consistently tell me what it was with his paw. Before I did this, he would signal but I wasn't sure if he'd found it or not/he was just standing there. If I missed a hide, we would be back to square one.

I didn't continue in the classes because I felt as though we were moving way too fast for where he was. He would get really stressed and distracted during outdoor hides and ended up marking everything. So, I just kind of gave him a break when our last class was over and didn't start back up. I'm hoping that the break, and now training at his speed will really help bring that drive back up and get him enjoying the game again. When we did outdoor hides at home a few months ago (Danielle did the hides so it was blind to me) he did super well! Even on vehicle searches, which was previously one of his less strong points. I need to improve on our elevated hides as well.

This game is super fun, and I think it will go a lot better with having the basic idea, but working without an instructor.

Are you guys on just an odor or are you in a pairing stage? What odor did you start with? Sorry that was so long! Lol!
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:10 PM
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I was going to reply to this yesterday but was on my phone lol. Quoting on my phone is difficult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meepitsmeagan View Post
Oh Rider man. He's a special boy. If he couldn't find the hide by the second time around, he would just quit. He would literally start crying and just lay down. Lol. He is very methodical about his searches. And slooooow. If there are boxes on the ground, that's where he starts. If none are to be found, he would go around the perimeter of the room, and so on and so forth.

So, we tried a few different things like changing up treats and that helped a little, but bringing in the clicker was the money shot for me. He gets so excited when the clicker comes out and he drives much better. At first, the instructor was hesitant about using a marker because they don't allow it in competition, but I had a feeling it would be a game changer so I did it anyways. I also started targeting the container, just so that when he found the hide he would consistently tell me what it was with his paw. Before I did this, he would signal but I wasn't sure if he'd found it or not/he was just standing there. If I missed a hide, we would be back to square one.
I've never had to deal with a slow dog, my problem has been the opposite. Especially with Summer because she's usually doing donuts as fast as she can that she doesn't stay still enough to really stick to the odor at all. I'm having to really work up 'hey you find this and then STAY THERE'. I really think her version of nosework in her head was to jump in and knock over all the boxes until food. She's starting to put two and two together but it really hasn't been until the last couple weeks that I'm seeing some methods to her searching.

I think it's a GOOD thing you're doing what seems to work for your own dog. My dogs when I am having trouble with motivation training anything, I bring out the clicker. I find it clears things up for them and is a great motvator. They know the game well and the click makes them super excited and ups their effort. They know that click and they want that click. Even though I use 'yes!' probably more than the clicker nowadays it doesn't hold that same weight.

I also think there's a lot of pressure right now since nosework is so new and the parent organization seems to want a monopoly on everything to train nosework exactly the same way for each dog. I've had different opinions than my instructors some- example would be training the alert. Many instructors don't at all and say to learn to read your dog's natural alert. I thought that was dumb when I could just TRAIN the alert and then my dog can clearly communicate to me. Instead of find the odor-> get the food, she knows she is supposed to find the odor then show me where it is. It's been so much better since working that alert behavior for her and it wasn't hard at all to add. So tl;dr if something makes sense to you then I would pursue that on my own.

Quote:
I didn't continue in the classes because I felt as though we were moving way too fast for where he was. He would get really stressed and distracted during outdoor hides and ended up marking everything. So, I just kind of gave him a break when our last class was over and didn't start back up. I'm hoping that the break, and now training at his speed will really help bring that drive back up and get him enjoying the game again. When we did outdoor hides at home a few months ago (Danielle did the hides so it was blind to me) he did super well! Even on vehicle searches, which was previously one of his less strong points. I need to improve on our elevated hides as well.
Do you use boxes outside? That's something we're doing in Summer's class but didn't in Mia's. Summer needs some more reminders of...errr remember what you're supposed to be doing. Boxes = nosework to her.

Summer frustrates though and sometimes even starts offering tricks instead of searching. That's when I know we've pushed too hard/far.

What do you guys do if he's struggling? Do you make it easier for him? One thing we've done is to put a box near the odor source if the dog is having trouble. They usually will go check the boxes since they know boxes often contain the hide and often it will direct them to find the hide on their own.

This game is super fun, and I think it will go a lot better with having the basic idea, but working without an instructor.

Quote:
Are you guys on just an odor or are you in a pairing stage? What odor did you start with? Sorry that was so long! Lol!
Mia is on odor only. We use birch. Summer is still pairing odor and food right now. I find she's still...not quite as committed to the game.
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Summer TG3 TIAD - (10 year old Papillon)
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:15 PM
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Oh, the box next to the hide if they are having trouble is a good idea! Sometimes we use boxes outside, sometimes we don't. I've found that he struggles the most with things on the ground/under leaves and such.. don't know why. We are at a mixed stage right now, doing some paired and some just birch odor.

It really helped once I brainstormed with our instructor, because for a while there it was just frustrating for both of us. He had drive for the game, but would get discouraged super easy. Now, if he looks like he is getting discouraged, I will point him in a new direction and kind of reward for trying and then normally he comes back.

Summer will come around, I think. I would expect Mia to be the crazy one, honestly.

I unfortunately didn't get any videos done because DH was oh so hungry and must have the food. So hopefully tomorrow evening or Sunday I can get some. I've done some starter stuff with Harlow as well, so I may put some vids up of her too, though they will be lame "here's a box with food. nom."
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meepitsmeagan View Post
Oh, the box next to the hide if they are having trouble is a good idea! Sometimes we use boxes outside, sometimes we don't. I've found that he struggles the most with things on the ground/under leaves and such.. don't know why. We are at a mixed stage right now, doing some paired and some just birch odor.
I think I might would pair more of them for now? Summer right now doesn't really pick up on non-paired hides well at all. I've continued pairing them and it seems to be helping. I know people have different opinions about how long to keep them on food vs odor.

Quote:
It really helped once I brainstormed with our instructor, because for a while there it was just frustrating for both of us. He had drive for the game, but would get discouraged super easy. Now, if he looks like he is getting discouraged, I will point him in a new direction and kind of reward for trying and then normally he comes back.
Another thing we do is if the dog is getting discouraged we will move the hide and make it easier. Or we will put our hand up to the hide with a cookie and hold it there till the dog finds it. I always want to end on success.

I think it's also important not to do too much or too long of a search. With Summer we generally do 5 or 6 searches. Mia routinely does 12+. Mia just has a lot more endurance but Summer checks out quicker. If she rests between them that will help too. So i will work summer a handful of times, put her up and work Mia a lot then pull Summer back out.

Quote:
Summer will come around, I think. I would expect Mia to be the crazy one, honestly.
My dogs are weird, LOL. At home Summer is super lazy and Mia is wilder. Out and about though Summer comes across as a lot more hyper than Mia. Summer's just so outgoing and not so much a thinker. Mia thinks too much. If we go to the store, Summer is the one trying to climb shelves and who is bouncing up and down like a pogo stick. Mia sticks close to me and behaves. No one ever believes me when I say Summer is lazy and that Mia is the bad one. Also everyone pegs Summer as the younger dog. I think it's mostly because Summer is so outgoing and her personality is 'YAY HAPPY!' All the time. Mia is moody.

Quote:
I unfortunately didn't get any videos done because DH was oh so hungry and must have the food. So hopefully tomorrow evening or Sunday I can get some. I've done some starter stuff with Harlow as well, so I may put some vids up of her too, though they will be lame "here's a box with food. nom."
Yay! You should! More people should get into nosework.

I took a video of Summer last night but she was so spastic that I had to zip it around to try to film and it's all shaky. Maybe I can get a better one.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
I think I might would pair more of them for now? Summer right now doesn't really pick up on non-paired hides well at all. I've continued pairing them and it seems to be helping. I know people have different opinions about how long to keep them on food vs odor.

Oh, I don't expect on him finding just the odor. They are kind of like a bonus. We will scatter one or two just odor along with four-five paired. It's super cool when he picks them up and tends to get a jackpot!

Another thing we do is if the dog is getting discouraged we will move the hide and make it easier. Or we will put our hand up to the hide with a cookie and hold it there till the dog finds it. I always want to end on success.

I think it's also important not to do too much or too long of a search. With Summer we generally do 5 or 6 searches. Mia routinely does 12+. Mia just has a lot more endurance but Summer checks out quicker. If she rests between them that will help too. So i will work summer a handful of times, put her up and work Mia a lot then pull Summer back out.

We had trouble with this in our class. It would run too long with too many hides, and by the last set he was done. When we do it at home, I do like 4-5 and leave him wanting more. It seems to get him more excited about it when I bring him out next time and he sees me get everything out.

My dogs are weird, LOL. At home Summer is super lazy and Mia is wilder. Out and about though Summer comes across as a lot more hyper than Mia. Summer's just so outgoing and not so much a thinker. Mia thinks too much. If we go to the store, Summer is the one trying to climb shelves and who is bouncing up and down like a pogo stick. Mia sticks close to me and behaves. No one ever believes me when I say Summer is lazy and that Mia is the bad one. Also everyone pegs Summer as the younger dog. I think it's mostly because Summer is so outgoing and her personality is 'YAY HAPPY!' All the time. Mia is moody.

I would have never expected that based on the stories I hear about Mia! Lol!

Yay! You should! More people should get into nosework.

I took a video of Summer last night but she was so spastic that I had to zip it around to try to film and it's all shaky. Maybe I can get a better one.

Do it! I wanna see Summer vs Mia.
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