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  #51  
Old 07-11-2013, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
ETA: Also, honestly shifting the responsibility/obligation of "saving a dog's life" from the people who PUT dogs in shelters to prospective dog homes kind of grates on me.
100% agreed.
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  #52  
Old 07-11-2013, 01:44 PM
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I think a great dog is where you find it. I have no problem buying a quality puppy from a good breeder (which is what futurepuppy will be) but I also support adopting a deserving pet. I never advocate all these last chance, death row dogs; many of them have temperament and health issues and are taking a healthy dog's chance of being adopted.

I think it's quite possible to find great temperament and great drive in a shelter dog, but you have to know what you're looking for. Henry is a shelter mutt and exactly what I wanted in a dog. Some of my needs have changed, but that's certainty not to his discredit.

I'll always have a mixture, I think.
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  #53  
Old 07-11-2013, 02:25 PM
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I think this is one of my biggest problems with rescues I've experienced. Dishonesty. My family adopted a handful of dogs in my lifetime, and with the exception of Winston, none of them were what we were told they were. From fear issues, to aggression issues, to both at once, that's just not what I want to deal with in a dog unless I had to. So it's not always as easy as finding a dog that's already 'made' and will fit what you want in a dog. And then there's the case of health... a lot of my childhood dogs were BYB dogs before we knew better. Those are exactly the type of dogs that end up in rescue, and the health of those dogs was not good. Three died way too young, others were constantly at the vet for something, etc. So between health and unstable temperaments (due in large part to poor evaluators), I just am more comfortable with the predictability of a breeder bought dog. And I am a puppy person, and I'd likely never adopt a rescue puppy after a terrible experience (if/when I adopt again, it'll be adults/seniors), so there's that too.

Of course, things can go sideways with breeder dogs too, but in general there seems to be a better chance at predictability.

I really do like the idea of rescue, and would like to do my part in helping someday, but I think in some ways it's even harder to find a good, knowledgeable rescue organization than it is to find a responsible breeder. But a good dog is a good dog, and can be found through either route.
I respect that, I really do, its a case of each to their own. Maybe our rescues in the UK are different/better than some, but many dogs are assessed for weeks by many different people so you do pretty much know what you're getting, at least, I always have. My rescue dogs so far have all seen their 14th birthdays, with the exception of Maddy, but that was due to an accident, not health.

Health doesn't come into it for me. If I rehome a dog and it dies young from something, well that's the way it goes. If I only get a few years with my dog, then that's OK too, I know I will have freed up a space in a kennel and given unwanted dog a few good years. I've tried not to make that sound bad, hopefully you understand what I mean!
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  #54  
Old 07-11-2013, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
why would it make you sad? I'd say the overwhelming majority of anybody that has ever posted on here has provided nothing but the best for their dogs. Who cares where they came from? a dog with a good life is a dog with a good life and unless you can save them ALL, some are not going to have an opportunity at the life you give your dogs.

Nobody's dog arrived here by immaculate conception, they all had a breeder. Give the ones you have a good home and you did your part.
I really wasn't trying to cause an argument, I can't help how I feel about the subject.

I wish more people would rescue, or at least consider a rescue dog. It's as simple as that.

Not necessarily just people on this forum, people in general.

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Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
Eh, so far in my life I've had 5 "rescues" and one "oops litter." I have nothing against rescues and don't exactly not want them, nor am I definitively going to or not going to seek one out. But at this point in my life I have more specific activities and concerns that will go into making the decision someday.


ETA: Also, honestly shifting the responsibility/obligation of "saving a dog's life" from the people who PUT dogs in shelters to prospective dog homes kind of grates on me.
I didn't say it was anyone's responsibility, anywhere. I feel I should rescue, and I wish more people would. I didn't say YOU have to, or anyone else. Just that I wish people would. I'm not anti-breeder in the slightest, as long as its being done right, its just not an option I would consider.

Plus, a 'shelter' dog is much different than a 'rescue' dog, as far as I'm concerned. In the UK, shelter/pound dogs (whatever you want to call them) are rarely assessed, and generally, a lot have come from bad homes and don't make great pets.

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Originally Posted by Saeleofu View Post
Logan was a year old when I got him, and he came from a breeder. Going to a breeder doe NOT mean you're obligated to get a puppy. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

I find it sad that some people can't respect that rescue isn't for everyone, and can't understand the value of well-bred, healthy dogs.
Yes I know that, and that is something I would consider in the future, and have done.

I have ALWAYS respected people's opinions as I said on my original post. Just because I would like something to be different doesn't mean I don't respect what people do/have done.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:30 PM
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Double post.
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  #56  
Old 07-11-2013, 02:38 PM
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Izzie was a private rehome as a puppy. I had some info on her background but she was from a byb so there was no testing or pedigree or really any thought behind the breeding when I ended up contacting the breeder.

Futuresheltie will be from a breeder. There are a couple that i've narrowed it down to that I like due to structure and temperament and drives. There are plenty of shelties in rescue around here, but I do not want a shy sheltie if i can help it and I need the best structure and drives I can get to do agility to the level I want to. Plus I want to start off with a puppy and put in that puppy foundation training right away to give futuresheltie the best start possible. While yes there's probably a sheltie out there in a shelter that might fit the bill, I want to stack my odds in the favour of getting a dog that suits me as perfectly as possible.

FutureFCR will also be from a breeder, simply because of the health issues that can occur and well the fact that they're a "rare breed" and don't come through rescue pretty much ever.
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  #57  
Old 07-11-2013, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
This! It is not my fault there are dogs in shelters. Me going to a responsible breeder is not putting dogs in shelters. It is the fault of the people who put their dogs in shelters, and the breeders who churn out dogs to sell to anyone but offer no support. So I don't feel an obligation to go through rescue.
Agree with this.

Wilson & Piper were both "Craigslist dogs". Wilson was from an "oops" litter.. the girl I got him from did have us sign adoption contracts and spay/neuter agreements. So, I'll give her that. I don't really consider him a rescue.

Piper, on the other hand, is from a BYB. They actually tricked me into coming to see her by telling me it was a "rescue litter" (I was looking to adopt a dog and had an ad on CL saying so). So I went to see them and as soon as I walked in I knew it was going to be bad. Cockroaches crawling all over the walls, puppies peeing all over the carpet and no one cleaning, it was disgusting. Her mom had Demodex, and they decided to inform me "well, we rescued her from animal control, but we HAD to breed her, I mean, she's BLUE!" Piper was the only blue tri color in the litter, and I knew if someone came along and decided she was "rare" that they'd keep her and breed her too. So I gave them $50 for her and left. So call her whatever you like LOL, I refer to her as my "BYB blue dog".

Sako is from a reputable breeder in GA. He's almost 3yrs. old now and I have an awesome relationship with her. She's been supportive of everything I've done with him and is always there to answer any questions I may have. He's neutered now due to his anxiety, but I have no regrets in getting him.


I lost a few rescue "friends" after getting Sako, but whatever. I'm getting another Amstaff pup in the fall, actually.
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Old 07-11-2013, 04:44 PM
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Frag came from a newspaper, Sir came from a kill shelter, and Recon came from a breeder.

Frag has a ton of allergies and had random weird aggression for almost a year during adolescence, terrible conformation, and is not a typical GSD as far as drives/energy go.

Sir has a lot of little quirks/problems I do not like and he likely wouldn't have if I had raised him. He does not know when to stop rough housing/get the picture when dogs don't want to play, he has no recall/attention, is a little reactive still, has anxiety, etc. Not housetrained on top of that.

Recon's healthy and smart and just the way I want him.

Moral of the story? I like puppies, definitely not adult dogs with engrained behaviors already instilled into them from someone/thing else that I can't really change that effects doing things with them/my lifestyle. I hate having to crate/rotate because Sir won't lay down in the house if everyone is loose to play with.

I want to know a dog is going to have an off switch though and I want to know about what the dog is going to look like size wise and breed wise as it matures, what sort of drives it will likely have, what it should excel at, and what health issues to expect or not to expect, or I would likely go to the shelter and get a shelter puppy. I don't want to get a puppy and end up having a couch potato that doesn't want to do anything or something that won't settle that I can't stand.

I've also (as an adult) adopted a 1yr old Rat Terrier mix from a no-kill shelter and she was a mess. Couldn't house train her after a year and a half, she became very aggressive with my other dogs and was constantly snapping at them, really quirky and weird. I ended up rehoming her to my parents because it just wasn't working out. I think if I had her from a pup that it would have been a lot easier on her and everyone.
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by DJEtzel View Post
Frag came from a newspaper, Sir came from a kill shelter, and Recon came from a breeder.

Frag has a ton of allergies and had random weird aggression for almost a year during adolescence, terrible conformation, and is not a typical GSD as far as drives/energy go.

Sir has a lot of little quirks/problems I do not like and he likely wouldn't have if I had raised him. He does not know when to stop rough housing/get the picture when dogs don't want to play, he has no recall/attention, is a little reactive still, has anxiety, etc. Not housetrained on top of that.

Recon's healthy and smart and just the way I want him.

Moral of the story? I like puppies, definitely not adult dogs with engrained behaviors already instilled into them from someone/thing else that I can't really change that effects doing things with them/my lifestyle. I hate having to crate/rotate because Sir won't lay down in the house if everyone is loose to play with.

I want to know a dog is going to have an off switch though and I want to know about what the dog is going to look like size wise and breed wise as it matures, what sort of drives it will likely have, what it should excel at, and what health issues to expect or not to expect, or I would likely go to the shelter and get a shelter puppy. I don't want to get a puppy and end up having a couch potato that doesn't want to do anything or something that won't settle that I can't stand.

I've also (as an adult) adopted a 1yr old Rat Terrier mix from a no-kill shelter and she was a mess. Couldn't house train her after a year and a half, she became very aggressive with my other dogs and was constantly snapping at them, really quirky and weird. I ended up rehoming her to my parents because it just wasn't working out. I think if I had her from a pup that it would have been a lot easier on her and everyone.
This.

I see a lot of things in rescue Buddy that wouldn't have been there if I had raised him. He hates leashes, folds like a lawn chair when he gets stressed & can't go off leash or be on tie out anywhere because he freaks out :/

Josefina is slightly better adjusted then buddy but not necessarily better. I got her as a pup but she was from a shelter, orphaned, no mom, dumped on the shelters doorstep at 4 weeks old ... Luckily they had foster homes they could go to til they were old enough to be adopted. Josefina is kind of an example of how sometimes getting a shelter PUPPY isn't necessarily better.

Futurepuppy will be from a good breeder (I have one picked out!) & maybe all my futurepuppies as Well, it's hard to know for sure. But I like the idea of clean slate + known parents + excellent breeder.
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:40 PM
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I have ALWAYS respected people's opinions as I said on my original post. Just because I would like something to be different doesn't mean I don't respect what people do/have done.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean for that to be directed at you. Rereading, I admit it DOES sound like that's what I meant, but I really meant it in general. There are many people out there that don't have any respect for purebred/purchased dogs or their owners. I know you're not one of them (heck, most of your rescues are purebreds anyway ).

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Health doesn't come into it for me. If I rehome a dog and it dies young from something, well that's the way it goes. If I only get a few years with my dog, then that's OK too, I know I will have freed up a space in a kennel and given unwanted dog a few good years.
For a pet, I can totally understand that. I'd rather have a couple years with my dog than not have had the dog at all. But from a working dog perspective, longevity means A LOT. It takes 2+ years to train a service dog; Logan was already a year old when I got him, so he was 3 years old (slightly over) when he started working. If he only lived to be 5, I would get less than 2 years working life out of him, and that doesn't even give me time to train the next dog. So I want a dog that will likely live a long, healthy life (barring unfortunate accidents, of course, that nobody can control or predict). Right now, Logan's still early in his career, but I'm hoping I won't have to get another SD candidate until he's 8 - 10 years old. We'll take it as it comes, of course, and see how he performs when we get there, but there are tons of dogs that not just live into their teens, but are incredibly healthy, active, and even can work. Of course there are rescue dogs that live and thrive just as long (look at Shamoo), and there are purebreds that are prone to be "heartbreak" breeds, but knowing your dog comes from healthy, long-lived lines is a bit reassuring for a working dog. Actually, longevity is one reason I wouldn't choose a boxer or great dane for service work unless I could get very specific lines that are healthy and long-lived.
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