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  #11  
Old 06-17-2013, 01:00 PM
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In a more general sense, changing some aspects of a breed bother me more than others. Aesthetics are less of a concern, as are size changes within the realm of still-can-do-the-core-job. Start changing basic personality traits and I get more stubborn. But it's on a case by case basis.

At the end of the day if the person is doing everything else right -- relevant health tests, objective evals of breeding animals, objectively educating themselves, standing by placed pups for their lifetimes -- and being upfront and honest with the people they get dogs from AND the people they sell dogs to... it doesn't really bother me.
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  #12  
Old 06-17-2013, 01:06 PM
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I'll take a traveler pup, you can visit it. Fair enough.
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  #13  
Old 06-17-2013, 01:08 PM
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There's really only two pap breeders I know that are really breeding for multigenerational sports lines and both of them also show their dogs. So I'm not sure where they'd fit but I'd kill for a dog from them. They're awesome.

The pap that won akc nationals this year was pointed in the show ring at least. Not sure if he's a champion.
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  #14  
Old 06-17-2013, 01:20 PM
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How tall are most paps?

If I had one I'd prefer it to stay in the 10" division which is 12" height or less. All the shelties are at 16" (12-16" height). I wouldn't want a teeny teeny pap either but if I'm gonna compete in the "sheltie class" I'll do it with a sheltie lol.

ETA: And I wouldn't want a dog that barely measures into the higher height, especially in my venue. I'll special but I'd like to stack my odds for a dog who is a comfortable height to jump its regular class height.
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  #15  
Old 06-17-2013, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyPug View Post
How tall are most paps?

If I had one I'd prefer it to stay in the 10" division which is 12" height or less. All the shelties are at 16" (12-16" height). I wouldn't want a teeny teeny pap either but if I'm gonna compete in the "sheltie class" I'll do it with a sheltie lol.

ETA: And I wouldn't want a dog that barely measures into the higher height, especially in my venue. I'll special but I'd like to stack my odds for a dog who is a comfortable height to jump its regular class height.
Paps are DQd after 12 inches. Oversized would be > 12 inches.

To me Shelties and paps aren't exchangeable. I like Shelties a lot but... I love paps.

Eta: I hope that came across right. I guess what I mean was even if there's a 'Sheltie class' doesn't mean that's what you (general) should compete with for that height. I don't know if I am making sense.
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Last edited by Laurelin; 06-17-2013 at 01:57 PM.
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  #16  
Old 06-17-2013, 01:57 PM
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I used to be super hardlined no. Breeds are made for a reason. Breed for that reason, no cross breeding on purpose .


Now I really don't care if you have a goal (or even your only goal being money ) to your breeding or not , as long as HEALTH and TEMPERAMENT are put first AND make sure they have a place for life then breed all the mixes you want. Those three things are what I look for in a breeder now. Health testing , temperament testing and lifetime take back.


This includes any mix for companion purposes only.
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  #17  
Old 06-17-2013, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai View Post
Well in many parts of this country, AKC is the only competitive game in town for agility, for example. So there if you want to breed toward the purpose of super-agility-dog, your options are to either keep the name and breed outside the SHOW standard (which may or not really reflect the breed's original purpose) or to make up your own name and then s/n any get that actually are going to compete while your breeding dogs are barred from competitions since they can either be intact or compete under the unrecognized name, not both.
Yeah that's why I don't mind if they use the new name colloquially, and "papillon" officially. That's really only ideal. I find it messy when you have one breed with multiple types, and everybody sniping at one another about which type is better/more correct, which confuses newbies etc. Best just to name it something else. The important part is being honest about what they are, acknowledging that they are unlikely to have authentic temperaments etc.

I do find it annoying when people breed something like Presa Canarios (or GSDs or whatever) that are 150%+ bigger than they should be and don't have the nerve or drive to protect and catch and still try to pass them off as "real" Presas. It's totally fine that people want a Presa-looking dog with a companion temperament but I'd rather it be called something else and "Presa Canario" be a specific term reserved for the original type.
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  #18  
Old 06-17-2013, 03:04 PM
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My opinion on this has made a complete turnaround, I used to be adamantly against it. Now I don't mind at all. In many breeds, working vs. sport bred is already a matter of semantics. Just be upfront about what you are breeding and don't try to market/advertise your dogs as something else.

I won't lie though - oversized, teddy bear German Shepherds being bred for companionship bother me much more than the ones bred for, say, agility (not that I know any). I can't even pinpoint exactly why. Maybe because of the large market for the former, maybe because they are not my tastes aesthetically, or maybe because of the way they are advertised?
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  #19  
Old 06-17-2013, 03:26 PM
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Honestly I don't have a problem with a lot of breeding things like this that I used to have a problem with. The jobs we need and want dogs to do change with time, there's no reason in my mind to adapt existing breeds or develop new ones to change with those jobs. It's what we've done with dogs all along.
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  #20  
Old 06-17-2013, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
Honestly I don't have a problem with a lot of breeding things like this that I used to have a problem with. The jobs we need and want dogs to do change with time, there's no reason in my mind to [not] adapt existing breeds or develop new ones to change with those jobs. It's what we've done with dogs all along.
This. As long as there is a purpose behind the breeding and the breeder does their homework on the dogs making sure what they want from the breeding isn't sacrificing health & stable temperament, and they're upfront with everything. I'm ok with it.
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