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  #171  
Old 06-21-2013, 04:11 PM
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Was that article about the guy who created the Labradoodle linked on here last week or so? He said he regrets it now because he feels like it has done a lot of damage to purebred dogs. And that even though he created the breed with a function in mind, nobody wanted one because it was a "mutt." The name "Labradoodle" and was a marketing ploy.

http://www.globalanimal.org/2010/12/...s-breed/25768/

Just something interesting. I do agree that labradoodle (and cockapoo) are the two you will find a lot of people trying to create something more stable and without just a lot of F1 crosses. I had a student in my class tell me what her dog was and I couldn't even break down the mix name. I had to ask her "a what?" OTOH she adopted the dog from the shelter. Either she wanted a cutesy name, or the shelter gave it a cutesy name to get it adopted. I know shelters will use "puggle" around here... friends of mine adopted a puggle from the shelter.

Labradoodles seem to look very similar around here. Puggles OTOH vary more widely around here, but by that I mean they either look really puggy or really beagley. Not like something in between.
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  #172  
Old 06-21-2013, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
Well I'd propose that there is a niche that the "designer" breeds are filling that isn't really filled by any existing breed, either. Otherwise, nobody would be buying or selling them. (Based on my experiences I don't think that most people who have most of these cross bred dogs now would have trundled down to the shelter if their mix didn't exist or wasn't available.)
I don't think that necessarily follows. I think people tend to get those dogs because they are trendy and hip. Because they are told purebreds are bad, and unhealthy, and that the designer breeds have "hybrid vigor". Certainly, the guy who invented the "Labradoodle" considers it a gimmick.
http://www.globalanimal.org/2010/12/...s-breed/25768/

And most of the people choosing these should go to the shelter for their dog, the traits they want exist there.

At any rate, we are unlikely to agree on this, and I wasn't really that interested in getting into further debate on the value of designer dogs, I thought I'd said my piece on that earlier. Today's post was because there was skepticism expressed on the thought that people would want "big, stupid, lazy& dim-witted pets", and I thought it worth mentioning that in fact, that is what most people really do want. They wouldn't put it in those words, and I sure wouldn't use those words if trying to market the amazing new pet breed. But the reality is that while most of us dog-oriented people want dogs that actually have dog behaviors, there is an enormous and growing section of the pet-owning population that really don't. They want a sweet, easy-going pet that they can take to the dog park when it's convenient, learns a few basic behaviors without drama; if they get busy at work and don't have time for the dog park or a walk, the dog can just chill at home without stress. Gets along with people, other dogs, and small animals. Low shedding, minimal grooming. And definitely, low vet bills!

It's something I've thought about before, as an occasional breeder, and discussed with friends. What we want in dogs, and what the general public want in dogs, are very different. I have a friend who is very pessimistic about it, and thinks that the general public need for really low-drive dogs, and the fact that most dogs act more like dogs, is going to eventually lead to a complete ban on dogs. I can't breed mellow dogs just because I know it's where the biggest market is, that's just not in me. I would rather have no Staffords at all than Staffords that didn't act like the breed.

But while in general I don't agree that it makes sense to create designer crossbreeds to fill a niche, believing that most niches have plenty of dogs to fill them already, I did feel that I had to admit that there is one niche that really isn't being filled, and that I'd have to change my stance if anyone really tried to fill it.
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  #173  
Old 06-21-2013, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyinsbt View Post
I think people tend to get those dogs because they are trendy and hip. Because they are told purebreds are bad, and unhealthy, and that the designer breeds have "hybrid vigor".
I disagree. I think most people get these breeds because they see one or know someone who has one, and likes them.

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Certainly, the guy who invented the "Labradoodle" considers it a gimmick.
Fortunately, he's not the boss of me, nor am I sure why his opinion should sway mine in any particular direction.

Quote:
And most of the people choosing these should go to the shelter for their dog, the traits they want exist there.
Again, I disagree that that's necessarily true. It's no more true than saying "people who want agility dogs (or tracking dogs, or sled dogs, or flyball dogs, etc etc) should go to the shelter for their dog, because the traits they want exist there." It could be true, but it's not necessarily true for companion dogs any more than any other dog IMO. Why is the onus on someone who wants a companion with particular personality traits, but not on someone who does agility?

But as I said earlier, seeing "companionship" as a legitimate function requiring specific traits seems to be something any given person either believes or not, and never the twain shall meet. I'm not really trying to change your mind, just make my position clear. And geek out talking about dog stuff.

Quote:
Today's post was because there was skepticism expressed on the thought that people would want "big, stupid, lazy& dim-witted pets", and I thought it worth mentioning that in fact, that is what most people really do want.
Again, I disagree. I deal with mostly pet owners all day every day, and I just don't see it. I would say that in general, most families want dogs who get along with most other dogs and people, are good with and tolerant of kids, are biddable, can tolerate a variety of activity levels and adapt to seasonal changes in the schedule of the household, and have an off switch. I don't think most people even care that much about grooming as long as it's not a big daily chore.

Anyway, if that's what people wanted, that's what all of the opportunists would be producing... but if you follow the money, it's not going towards big, stupid, lazy and dim-witted. *shrug*
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  #174  
Old 06-21-2013, 05:30 PM
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I hate quoting on my phone but I agree, working day to day with pet people, about Sass's description as "ideal pet".

I don't think most people want doodles because of some health issue or uniqueness, I think they think they're cute and easy. Most of our clients don't groom them at all, at least that's what the groomer groan about almost daily.
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  #175  
Old 06-21-2013, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
Most of our clients don't groom them at all, at least that's what the groomer groan about almost daily.
Oh god, yeah, they come in a hot mess most of the time, and their owners want them all cute and foofy and then wig out when you tell them the dog has to be shaved down with a 7 blade. They want the look without the work.

Like I said, my biggest gripe about about doodles and their owners, lol.
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  #176  
Old 06-21-2013, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
Ok lesson learned. No breeding threads.
It was worth it for this:

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Originally Posted by BostonBanker View Post
Go hug your designer dog, you snob. Just put Mira in your purse and go buy some more glitter lotion or whatever you do when you own a designer dogs. I'm gonna take my real dog, as mentioned in Genesis ("And on the thirteenth day, God created the Gusto and said "Holy bat wings, what have I done?! Put it back, put it back!"), and go do Real Dog things.
On the note of doodles, I really can't tell if I don't like the dogs, or the owners. I live in a very richyrich town where everyone has one. Pretty much all of the ones I have met have been horrible with other dogs (bullies & very up in their business), not at all trained, and not pleasant to be around.

The last guy w/them I ran into had 2 that he was going to breed, the boy was 2, the girl 10 months old, both slightly overweight, but actually ok acting. He went on a long rant about how he would never fix his dogs, especially his female, because 'I would never fix my mother, why would I fix my dog?' as if those things are anywhere close to the same thing. Like, sure, don't fix her, but wth. I've also conveniently come up with the subject for the next inflammatory thread ('If you wouldn't fix your mom, why would you fix a dog?').

So clearly I need to see one of these dogs with an owner who actually trains their dogs up to other standards so I can compare, lol.
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  #177  
Old 06-21-2013, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oko View Post
'I would never fix my mother, why would I fix my dog?' as if those things are anywhere close to the same thing. Like, sure, don't fix her, but wth. I've also conveniently come up with the subject for the next inflammatory thread ('If you wouldn't fix your mom, why would you fix a dog?').
LMFAO omg. I'm gonna die, that's so funny.

You should have been like, "What do you mean? I'd spay my mom in a heartbeat."
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  #178  
Old 06-21-2013, 06:27 PM
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LMFAO omg. I'm gonna die, that's so funny.

You should have been like, "What do you mean? I'd spay my mom in a heartbeat."
My mother chose to "fix" herself (tubes tied) LOL
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  #179  
Old 06-21-2013, 06:30 PM
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Fix their... mother? Who uses that as an example? I'm going to pee myself laughing here.
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  #180  
Old 06-21-2013, 06:37 PM
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It doesn't surprise me that shelters will list designer dog names under breeds-some people want to adopt that specific mix. It's a lot easier to search for "labradoodle" than lab mix or poodle mix. While I doubt I'd buy a doodle from a breeder, I'd happily adopt one.
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