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  #91  
Old 06-19-2013, 05:40 PM
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I have seen a lot of show ACDs (though showing, since this breed isn't as popular as Aussies, GSDs & BCs) that have too much coat & are too light colored for my tastes but with a working breed I would rather see a dog who works more then shows conformation.
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  #92  
Old 06-19-2013, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
It's good to remember that crossbreeding isn't the be all end all of health in horses either. Impressive, the prolific quarter horse stallion to whom the genetic disease HYPP can be traced, had a thoroughbred sire and quarter horse dam. Arguably the worst hereditary illness to hit the breed is linked to a "crossbred." Breeding registries that were open to breeding in quarter horses such and Paints and appaloosas then had to contend to HYPP being introduced into their gene pools.

I would hardly call HYPP 'arguably the worst hereditary illness to hit the breed'. I think that 'honor' falls to HERDA.


As for breeding for sports. Meh. as long as someone is breeding mentally and physically sound animals; doing the necessary health checks for the breed/cross breeds; have some sort of 'will take the pup back for any reason, at anytime' promise, it's not a problem to me.
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  #93  
Old 06-19-2013, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by adojrts View Post
A horse bred to be halter (conformation for the non horse folks) horse for the large muscles and heavily line bred to one Tb sire produced such a horrible inherited problem and something that they claim Impressive himself never showed signs of.

However isn't it interesting that in the history of Thoroughbreds to recent times that they don't have HYPP??? In my opinion, HYPP can't be blamed on an outcross to a different breed when that breed doesn't have it

Here is a quote from an article at UC Davis:

This genetic defect has been identified in descendents of the American Quarter Horse sire, Impressive. The original genetic defect causing HYPP was a natural mutation that occurred as part of the evolutionary process. The majority of such mutations, which are constantly occurring, are not compatible with survival. However, the genetic mutation causing HYPP produced a functional, yet altered, sodium ion channel. This gene mutation is not a product of inbreeding. The gene mutation causing HYPP inadvertently became widespread when breeders sought to produce horses with heavy musculature. To date, confirmed cases of HYPP have been restricted to descendants of this horse.

http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/hypp.php
I wasn't "blaming" thoroughbred blood for the defect. My point was that more open stud books do not necessarily mean better health. Stud books open to quarter horses did introduce the disease into appaloosas and Paints.

I think how "inadvertent" the speading of the disease was is arguable. Many breeders didn't test horses that they knew could be carriers because they simply didn't want to know and lose the ability to breed their stallions. I remember there being huge uproar among breeders after an article about HYPP was published in the Quarter Horse Journal--the complaint was that the article was published right before the breeding season. The AQHA has cracked down on it, requiring foals with Impressive blood to be tested, but years too late IMHO. My cousin had a P/P gelding-it's a nasty disease.
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  #94  
Old 06-19-2013, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostAndConfused View Post
I would hardly call HYPP 'arguably the worst hereditary illness to hit the breed'. I think that 'honor' falls to HERDA.


As for breeding for sports. Meh. as long as someone is breeding mentally and physically sound animals; doing the necessary health checks for the breed/cross breeds; have some sort of 'will take the pup back for any reason, at anytime' promise, it's not a problem to me.
I should have said "one of the worst." HYPP does seem to be more prevelant across the board that HERDA because Impressive blood found its way into both halter and a lot of pleasure lines, where HERDA thankfully seems to be more confined, but yes still more horrific than HYPP.
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  #95  
Old 06-19-2013, 08:38 PM
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I used to scoff at Borderjacks and Borderstaffys, but working in the dog industry has made me much less snobby about breeders. If your dogs are of sound temperament and health, and you're taking ALL of the steps to being a reputable breeder, you're doing much better than the majority of purebred breeders, no matter what mixes you're breeding! If there's tons of great, dog sport homes lined up for all of your puppies? That's awesome. Well bred sport mixes aren't the random/unknown mixed dogs that end up in shelters.

I even tolerate a well bred Doodle now! I've met many more poorly bred, crazy Doodles, but a few very nicely bred ones with amazing owners changed my mind.
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  #96  
Old 06-19-2013, 08:43 PM
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the gsd was a designer breed not that long ago.
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  #97  
Old 06-19-2013, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D&Co View Post
the gsd was a designer breed not that long ago.
How so?
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  #98  
Old 06-19-2013, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D&Co View Post
the gsd was a designer breed not that long ago.
How so?
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  #99  
Old 06-19-2013, 10:52 PM
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How so, is that a genuine question?

think about how any breed started.


to prev. question
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  #100  
Old 06-20-2013, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D&Co View Post
How so, is that a genuine question?

think about how any breed started.


to prev. question
There are several ancient breeds that were not 'started'.
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