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  #11  
Old 06-13-2013, 08:43 PM
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Keechak Keechak is offline
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You may also want to look into Tucker Creek Aussies, she has some great dogs. A little more "rough" looking but fantastic longevity and health in her lines.


As far as "Mini's", they are now AKC recognized as Miniature American Shepherds, their temperament can be a bit different and it can be harder to find good stock lines in their breed since they were created mostly for companionship in the beginning and over the last 15-20 or so years have branched out to the performance sports.

There are some Minis that are actually larger than Aussies, whether a dog is a Mini or an Aussie is dependent primarily on bloodline and not size.
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  #12  
Old 06-13-2013, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JacksonsMom View Post
If you don't mind, I may hijack a bit. I may make my own thread, but does anyone have any info on Mini Aussies? Because they've been a breed I've been eyeing for a bit too. I thought I'd like BCs better but am not too sure actually. After meeting a few Aussies recently, I think I prefer them. Also for someone who has never had a herder before, would you suggest Aussie over BC in general?

I do know they're somewhat controversial, and I wouldn't want a Chi-looking mini (I'd just like to keep it under 25lbs) but is there such a thing as a decent breeder for mini's? Are they forming into their own breed? How similar are they to standard Aussies?

To be honest, the main thing keeping me from most herders is size. I have the potential to be renting in the next few years, and personally I just think everything is a bit easier with a <25lb dog. But I love most of what I've heard about Aussies but it would be nice to have it in a smaller package. I know there's Shelties but I'm not sure I really 'click' with the few I've met, and also the hair. I just don't so much dig the big poofyish hair.
Of all the Mini Aussies I've ever met, only two were sane. And both were from the same breeder. The others were dog aggressive, highly fearful or human aggressive. I run with two HA minis on my flyball team (and one fearful one). They're awesome and FAST dogs, but don't touch them, look at them, speak to them or acknowledge they exist. They'll draw blood without much thought.

I would say they're similar to standard Aussies without the evenness of temperament. I think that mini breeders have focused too much on size and, in some cases, performance, and not enough on temperament. Fear issues seem to abound. They're not bad dogs, but I don't think they're typically dogs for the everyday owner.

Cali, my guess is that you'll probably find what you're looking for in show lines. I think delving into working/performance lines is more than you're looking for at this point in time. Cohen is out of show lines and she's a little spitfire, but she keeps her brain about her... most of the time.
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  #13  
Old 06-13-2013, 08:57 PM
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Following this thread for sure...

Even though its years off, I am pretty sure our next dog will be an aussie (other possibilities are random mutt or standard poodle). It was supposed to be an Wolfhound by my children both have made their case for a smaller dog and they will be at good ages to actually do some training and activities by then
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Old 06-13-2013, 09:31 PM
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Agreed, Sekah.

I think show line Aussies have the amount of versatility I'm looking for. At one point, maybe I'd want what a working line offers... but since this would be my first sports dog, a show line aussie would be a safer bet. From what I've seen, the show lines don't lack anything at all and seem pretty wonderful, at least based in my limited experience of what I've read on here and on breeder websites and Facebook pages.

Really, probably for the most part, the Aussie would just be an active companion with a lot of dabbling in sports until I found one or two that we both enjoyed. I'd like to try everything from flyball to tracking eventually, plus I always enjoy teaching Cali new tricks so that'd be something as well.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacksonsMom View Post
If you don't mind, I may hijack a bit. I may make my own thread, but does anyone have any info on Mini Aussies? Because they've been a breed I've been eyeing for a bit too. I thought I'd like BCs better but am not too sure actually. After meeting a few Aussies recently, I think I prefer them. Also for someone who has never had a herder before, would you suggest Aussie over BC in general?

I think it's hard to judge a dog's size based on weight. I mean, Journey's not little by small dog standards, but her head barely comes past my knee (I'm 5'2" for reference). She's pretty small and compact. She somehow weighs 40lbs, but I don't know where she keeps it haha. She just has heavy bone. I've met 'minis' who were taller or the same size... actually, most of the 'minis' I've met have been about her size, come to think of it.

With that said, I think most of the 'minis' I've met have been very poorly bred even for a controversial breed/type, so they might not be the best to base my thoughts on... but, I've only met like two that were nice dogs. All of the others have been nervy, unstable, reactive, fear biting messes. There were a bunch in most of the Agility classes I took with Dance. 'Toys' too. So based on that alone, I'd steer clear.

I always thought Aussies were kind of big too, and then I got to Journ's breeder's house (the only time I was ever in amongst a bunch of Aussies at once) and my first thought was how little most of them were. They sound big when I see their sizes written down, but in person I don't find them that big at all for the most part (the girls anyway).

I do totally understand your desire for a smaller dog though. Renting is hard here regardless of size of dog, but I definitely saw more ads saying smaller dogs were ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali Mae View Post
Agreed, Sekah.

I think show line Aussies have the amount of versatility I'm looking for. At one point, maybe I'd want what a working line offers... but since this would be my first sports dog, a show line aussie would be a safer bet. From what I've seen, the show lines don't lack anything at all and seem pretty wonderful, at least based in my limited experience of what I've read on here and on breeder websites and Facebook pages.

Really, probably for the most part, the Aussie would just be an active companion with a lot of dabbling in sports until I found one or two that we both enjoyed. I'd like to try everything from flyball to tracking eventually, plus I always enjoy teaching Cali new tricks so that'd be something as well.
That kind of sounds like me. I wanted a dog to dabble in a bunch of different sports and stuff with until I found our niche/what I want to really get into, and I want a dog who will excel in the sports I try, but mostly at the end of the day I just want an active companion to play with, teach tricks to, hike with, etc.

I think a show line with dogs succeeding in performance venues would be a great fit for you, too. IME they're definitely not lacking anywhere at all.
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  #16  
Old 06-14-2013, 04:57 AM
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Just FYI you don't have to choose from just workingline or showline. I personally stick with the Versatility lines, dogs that are neither here nor there as far as extremes. They can get their conformation championship and also go on to get their performance titles easily, tho normally aren't campaigned in anything.
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacksonsMom View Post
To be honest, the main thing keeping me from most herders is size. I have the potential to be renting in the next few years, and personally I just think everything is a bit easier with a <25lb dog. But I love most of what I've heard about Aussies but it would be nice to have it in a smaller package. I know there's Shelties but I'm not sure I really 'click' with the few I've met, and also the hair. I just don't so much dig the big poofyish hair.

As others have mentioned, if you get a mini Aussie, there is no guarantee of size. Many "mini" Aussies I've met are the same size as regular Aussies. If you want a smaller herder, finding a line of Shelties you like is a safer option. Or Corgis.
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  #18  
Old 06-14-2013, 11:25 AM
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I do agility with a couple super awesome, sweet, stable mini's. They came from rescues, and were adults when they were adopted, so size/temperament was stable.

Regardless of if weight is directly correlated to size, apartment complexes generally limit it to 25 lbs (not 16" or "knee high" or anything). I had to show paperwork from the vet proving my dog was within the weight limit and up to date on vaccinations before they'd let me add her to the lease.

think it is smart to look at weight if you are a future renter. (JM, if rescue is a route you're interested in, go on petfinder, search for young/adult aussies in the small/medium category. You'll find some in your size range).
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  #19  
Old 06-14-2013, 09:45 PM
Pops2 Pops2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Keechak View Post
Well there is quite a large overlap in the working lines and showlines in Aussies. I would say tho that when you get into the Westminster winners or National Stockdog winners is where you see the biggest split but for the average local show dog/stock trialing dog there is a lot of overlap.

For the most popular kennels on either end of the extremes I would say
Showline:
Bayshore
Propwash
Thornapple

Stockline:
Twin Oaks
Slash V
Hangin' Tree

The showline dogs tend to have more white and in general more "perfect" copper points, they also tend to have thicker coats in general tho not necessarily any longer coated than the stockline dogs.

The stocklines, again in general, tend to be bred more for cattle work and less for versitility of stock, I'm not saying a stockline dog can't work ducks and chickens I'm just saying that's usually not their goal in mind.

The showline tend to be picked from their litter based primarily on markings and typey structure first and foremost, It's not that instinct is bred "away from" it's just not a priority so you never know what kind of instinct a showline dog will have until you try it out. Genetic instinct doesn't disappear unless it is selected against, and as far as I know most showline kennels do not select for or against it.

You are more likily to find a LOT of health testing in the bigger showline kennels but you will also find pricetags to match often not less than $1500 for a puppy. While some of the working lines may only do the recommended hips, elbows, and CERF eyes and their prices may be closer to around $600-$1000.

Some say the stockline dogs tend to be more dog aggressive tho I can't vouch for that since I have never seen an issue with it in the stocklines myself, no more-so than the showlines at least.


Just a random fun fact the ASCA #1 bitch 2009/2010 and ASCA #2 overall 2010/2011 is one awesome Stockdog! I have had the joy of knowing this girl and seeing her work and she hits heads and heels and will turn back any cattle without fear. She not only has her ASCA Ch and AKC GrCh but also her WTCH and several Farm and Ranch trial titles. She comes from strong showlines.
By definition if the job is not the number one focus then you are NOT breeding FOR work. If you're not breeding for work then by default you are breeding away from it.
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  #20  
Old 06-15-2013, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Pops2 View Post
By definition if the job is not the number one focus then you are NOT breeding FOR work. If you're not breeding for work then by default you are breeding away from it.
You are reading more into my words than what I wrote. I never said anything about showlines being working dogs. Having instinct and being a working dog are two different things. So don't pick fights where there are no fights to be had.
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