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  #41  
Old 06-10-2013, 01:13 PM
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Your wants are pretty much exactly like mine, except I have pretty strict coat requirements and want a larger dog. I know you already shut the idea down, but Duke matches all those things on your list. He's 5lbs heavier than your max weight though. However it would definitely be more of an individual in the breed than a general breed match. Finding the right breeder would be the key.

Aussie, english shepherd and Koolie definitely seem like the better choices. Gotta be into the retriever thing to fully enjoy a Labrador.
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  #42  
Old 06-10-2013, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
Thanks! They definitely sound like a breed with a fabulous temperament that I think I'd enjoy a lot. Wish they were more common to get to meet some.

English shepherds are the same way but I worry a bit more that they may not be drivey enough.

Y'all all need to make road trips to Oklahoma.
I think that is a fair concern about an ES, I don't know how 'drivey' they can be. But, there is A LOT of variation in the breed and I think you could find a drivey ES.

When it is time to get another puppy (5 ish years), one of the breeders I am currently super interested in is in OK.
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  #43  
Old 06-10-2013, 02:32 PM
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Really? I think I may have stumbled onto their website a while back. English shepherds do sound like fabulous dogs.

So many breeds I want to try. XD
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  #44  
Old 06-10-2013, 02:40 PM
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Really? I think I may have stumbled onto their website a while back. English shepherds do sound like fabulous dogs.

So many breeds I want to try. XD
That's why chazzers just need to buy a HUGE plot of land. We can 'try out' each others dogs.
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  #45  
Old 06-10-2013, 03:18 PM
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I'm here just to say Vizsla ..like a Koolie, but bigger& red
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  #46  
Old 06-10-2013, 03:22 PM
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I know I'm late to the thread, but you seem like you'd be a good fit for English Shepherds. Such cool dogs.

I'm not big on sporting dogs, either. I'm not sure why, because all the ones I've met I've just adored. I used to have a rally class with a lady who has flat coats, and her 9 month old puppy was way more focused then Miz Naughty. Miz Naughty tends to get bored with obedience though. He was so handsome!

I knew another lady who had Portuguese Water Dogs...Not a fan of the show haircut, myself, but boy those guys sure have energy to burn!

They seem a bit more independent then some of the other retrievers, but they have a sense of humor about training that I find very endearing.
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  #47  
Old 06-10-2013, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
- Size doesn't matter for this really. <50 lbs?
- coat doesn't matter
- Energy level- moderate to high with great off switch. Puts in a lot of effort when need be but also is totally cool to sleep part of the day.
- Extremely high biddability and desire to work with you.
- Some sort of high useable drive (for us it's food but could be anything. Doesn't need to be mal level or anything. But at any rate a dog that is easily motivated)
- Extremely people friendly. Very outgoing that way.
- very athletic/likes to jump.
- Very suited to agility training/fast. (essentially lightly built)
- dog friendliness- not necessarily a dog park dog but can live peacefully with other dogs easily
- relatively sensitive personality. But also very confident. I am not sure if I am wording that correctly. Not a very hard or sharp kind of dog?
- Very confident with surroundings and new things. Takes everything in stride. Maybe not as prone to needing such extensive socialization like Mia does and a lot of breeds I like do.
-Happy/up personality. Easily excited, lol. I guess some would say just a touch hyper.
- Extremely handler oriented/velcro

Bonus: toy drive and likes water (which is a trait I don't have at the moment lol)
I think it's pretty normal to read lists like this and think "hey, that sounds like my dog/breed"... and that's what I'm doing.

It sounds a lot like you'd like an Aussie. Just as always, do your homework and find a breeder who's breeding from lines you like.

Size - Cohen is ~37 pounds and is on the small end for a standard Aussie. I love her small sporty size. She's oddly long in body, but has good leg length all things considered. Obviously most Aussies go a bit bigger, with 40-45 pounds being normal for females. Males as always are normally larger.

Energy - Cohen is medium/high energy. She'll go all day if I ask her to, but as she tires she gets more obstinate and less sensitive. My last Aussie was a family pet and he was a total couch potato. As always, it'll depend on the lines and individual dogs. I don't know any Aussies personally who are faster/more energetic than Cohen, but I know they exist. Cohen will sleep throughout a day from time to time, but she really needs some sort of outlet 1-2 times a day. She'll sign/whine, and will jump to attention the moment you shift your weight.

Biddability: Cohen is very biddable, and has been since she was a puppy. I see lots of Aussies (mostly bench bred lines) who are more stubborn and more inclined to search out their own fun.

Drive: Aussies seem to have food drive coming out the wazoo, and most are naturally toy driven. I find the toy drive needs to be fostered for it to really grow to a level where it would be usable in training. I kind of flubbed building Cohen's toy drive, but it's still decent.

People friendliness: Cohen loooooooves her people. If there are ~other people~ around she couldn't care less unless they have food. Ambivalent is the word. A trainer friend of mine used to joke that Cohen hated her. I told her to feed/work with Cohen a bit. After a few weeks/months of working her, my dog now flips out when she sees my friend and turns herself inside out in excitement when she enters the room. Some Aussies I know are more naturally friendly, but most are pretty aloof.

Athletic: Yep. Some bench bred/fattie Aussies can be pretty boring, but I think if they're kept in the right condition the athleticism comes naturally with the drive.

Build: Aussies are a bit heavy in bone, generally. But again the sports/working bred ones I've seen have really nice moderate builds. I think Cohen's is quite nice, with the exception of her long loin. Again, assuming the dog is of the proper lines, fostering speed should be easy. But they're not so fast that you'll find yourself constantly frustrated.

Dog friendliness: I wouldn't call the breed dog friendly. In my mind, best case scenario is for them to be ambivalent/aloof around other dogs. But I've seen exceptions to the rule. Reactivity can definitely be a thing, but can be managed to unnoticeable levels.

Sensitivity: Cohen is very in tune with me, but very resilient. Sometimes maddeningly so. She's a poor candidate for any sort of punishment based training because a harsh word won't faze her, and the few times when I've lost my temper with her she just lets it roll right off her back. I don't think I've ever seen her shut down.

Confidence: Cohen is naturally pretty confident in new areas. Where her confidence fails is around other strange, large dogs. If the other dogs are working, she'll work alongside, but if they react towards her she'll get intimidated and react right back. As I said above, I've never seen her shut down, and I never see her afraid to try something new with me.

Personality: Cohen is pretty serious, but most Aussies are pretty light hearted. I admit, I like the seriousness.

Velco: Cohen is totally velco and will stick with me in just about any situation. I can't remember the last time I was able to walk into another room alone. She's always on my heels. However, she'll work for just about anyone in short spurts - she's pass off-able. It's really helpful in performance situations, and it's really nice to be able to hand her to a friend and sit back and watch her run. You just need to be familiar enough with her know her quirks, and you're good to go.

Toy drive: As I mentioned, this one may not be as naturally strong, but it can be built.

Water: Cohen doesn't like going into the water any deeper than where she can touch. My last dog was the same way. She loves wading. Most Aussies I know are great in water though, and can be killer dock diving dogs.
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  #48  
Old 06-10-2013, 04:19 PM
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Get an aussie because of reasons!
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  #49  
Old 06-10-2013, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
I've never met a griff, but have had people suggest them before. I will admit I am a little bit nervous with sporting breeds because I think of them as being a lot more frantic and needing physical energy outlets vs breeds needing mental energy outlets. I am much more used to (and I think suited for) the latter. No real experience with vizsla either but one of the other trainers has a young one. I'll have to watch it as she trains it.

My trainer always is saying Summer reminds her of a border collie. In some ways she does but I find she's a lot more even keeled than most BCs and a lot more up and happy go lucky. And definitely not as driven as most BCs. It's of course an idea I've had on my mind for a while and probably a very likely choice for one of my next couple dogs.
I think a lot of gundogs are just as happy being mentally challenged as they are physically! The only thing I would say, is they can be a bit thick headed. They are often used to being very far away from their handler, so can be independent and stubborn. Vislas are (to my knowledge) considered softer than gsp.

I don't think a gsp would have the trainer focus... It's the one thing I do miss in Freddie, he does nothing unless there is something in it for him, you have to get his attention with something, or you're screwed.

Vizla might be a good choice though, and a bitch would be quite small and light.

Honestly though, if you want to do dog sports, there's a reason herders are picked over a lot of gundogs!!
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  #50  
Old 06-10-2013, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by LostAndConfused View Post
I think that is a fair concern about an ES, I don't know how 'drivey' they can be. But, there is A LOT of variation in the breed and I think you could find a drivey ES.

When it is time to get another puppy (5 ish years), one of the breeders I am currently super interested in is in OK.
I have a major want for an ES in the future. I've always been interested in BC's, but think their personality is a little too... much for me, I guess. But I've had somewhat limited experience. The ones I got to experience up close and personal with were my agility trainers 3 BC's, all rescues, and all somewhat different but still had that same intensity about them that may be a bit too much for me. I guess I was thinking I would meet them and fall in love in real life, but I didn't really.

And then I love Golden Retrievers but they're often a bit TOO soft for me and TOO friendly. I think ES's sound like a good in between and a good way for me to be introduced to herders. They're one of the breeds I'm seriously contemplating. I kind of just wish they were a bit smaller and lighter bonded (I definitely prefer the body type of BC's).

And as far as large dogs go, for some reason, Jackson really likes herders. He highly dislikes the play of most retrievers, bully's, etc. But herding-type breeds, he meshes very well with.

I would guess that's something else you're looking for? Breeds that would be good with the Paps?
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