Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > The Dog Breeds


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-20-2013, 09:50 AM
FG167's Avatar
FG167 FG167 is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Jefferson, GA
Posts: 2,472
Default All the Terriers - need info

Pros/cons/differences for Jagdterriers, Border Terriers, Jack Russell Terriers, Patterdale Terriers, any others...any and all info. Would be for performance (agility, dock jumping, flyball, perhaps Terrier Races if possible) primarily and definitely a house pet to live with other dogs and cats. I've lived with a few, but rescues that did not meet any standard. I do want a dog that can settle in the house but we are a very active family and with a small dog they can be packed up with the big ones and brought anywhere Just researching pretty much any breed that catches my eye right now.
__________________
~Falon~
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-20-2013, 10:29 AM
Flyinsbt's Avatar
Flyinsbt Flyinsbt is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 886
Default

Out of those, for a dog to live with other pets, I'd go with the Border Terrier.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-20-2013, 10:56 AM
adojrts's Avatar
adojrts adojrts is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,089
Default

I can only speak of my breed (jrts) and my experiences. I am not in the camp of don't have a jrt and cats/small animals. I firmly believe that it depends on the dog and the prospective home. We had a couple of cats for years and never had a problem. Then my old cats died, I didn't get another one and my dogs changed their attitudes where cats were concerned.

If I had a cat, I would purchase from a breeder (regardless of terrier breed) that had cats. Puppies exposed to cats and kittens or other small animals needs to happen no later than 4 wks of age. Even then it isn't a guarantee and it has nothing to do with prey drives. I have seen jrts that wouldn't hunt, that have killed cats. And I know proven working terriers that don't even give a cat a sideways glance or they play with them and are buddies.

I think that you have to ask yourself, what the worst case scenario could be and how you would manage it. Could you keep a cat safe if the terrier you purchased decided that the kitty must die? The dog that watches and waits for the perfect opportunity. Will you see the interest, see the drives turn on?

I have had a lot of jrts over the years and I have had two pups right from the get go that would attempt to kill the cat as wee pups. One of them is Punky, yet two of her littermates live with cats and no issues (so far).

Good luck and if you have any questions give me a shout and I'll try to help.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-20-2013, 10:56 AM
milos_mommy's Avatar
milos_mommy milos_mommy is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,568
Default

Would be for performance (agility, dock jumping, flyball, perhaps Terrier Races if possible) primarily and definitely a house pet to live with other dogs and cats. I've lived with a few, but rescues that did not meet any standard. I do want a dog that can settle in the house but we are a very active family and with a small dog they can be packed up with the big ones and brought anywhere

A JRT could do all of those sports easily and eagerly...the pups need to be taught how to settle and it can be tough for them, but they're fast learners and most experienced dog people shouldn't have a problem with that.

Many of them do have DA/prey drive. You can certainly find lines where it's less prevalent, or tell by adulthood if they're going to have the issues (with an adult breeder dog or adult rescue), but if you want a 100% guarantee of peaceful coexistence, I would say don't consider a JRT puppy and be careful about choosing an adult.

The border terriers I've known have been really good with other dogs as far as terriers go, same with westies. The cairns, scotties, JRTs are scrappier IME. Unfortunately, the border terriers I've known have also been a lot less drive-y than the JRTs. Definitely trainable in agility, and would love to do terrier trials, but not up to competing at the level a JRT is. One from working lines might be more your speed, and from what I've heard, even working borders are usually dog/other pet friendly.
__________________
"My favorite color is green, green like newly cut grass. When it comes to green with envy, though, you can stick it up your @ss!" ~ Grammy



http://www.adorablebeasts.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-20-2013, 12:53 PM
FG167's Avatar
FG167 FG167 is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Jefferson, GA
Posts: 2,472
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by adojrts View Post
If I had a cat, I would purchase from a breeder (regardless of terrier breed) that had cats.

I think that you have to ask yourself, what the worst case scenario could be and how you would manage it. Could you keep a cat safe if the terrier you purchased decided that the kitty must die? The dog that watches and waits for the perfect opportunity. Will you see the interest, see the drives turn on?
How do I go about finding a breeder that does all necessary health testing (which is?), has cats, and has dogs that compete or place dogs in agility? I have a friend with an AKC dog and he's slower/lower drive than I want but he also kills things in their backyard. However, my Corgis have caught and eaten squirrels and rabbits and are totally fine with the cats. We do have a cat room so the cats can be shut away but I would greatly prefer to not have to rotate the dog away from the cats just for ease and because I prefer my pets to be all around me whenever I'm home I'm pretty good at recognizing drives now and when/what they are triggered by. I work with Mals (loads of DA ones), working-line GSDs and myself own those breeds among others. Not to say I'm fail proof by any means but I am pretty good at tapping into or encouraging drives to be placed elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milos_mommy View Post
A JRT could do all of those sports easily and eagerly...the pups need to be taught how to settle and it can be tough for them, but they're fast learners and most experienced dog people shouldn't have a problem with that.

Many of them do have DA/prey drive. You can certainly find lines where it's less prevalent, or tell by adulthood if they're going to have the issues (with an adult breeder dog or adult rescue), but if you want a 100% guarantee of peaceful coexistence, I would say don't consider a JRT puppy and be careful about choosing an adult.

The border terriers I've known have been really good with other dogs as far as terriers go, same with westies. The cairns, scotties, JRTs are scrappier IME. Unfortunately, the border terriers I've known have also been a lot less drive-y than the JRTs. Definitely trainable in agility, and would love to do terrier trials, but not up to competing at the level a JRT is. One from working lines might be more your speed, and from what I've heard, even working borders are usually dog/other pet friendly.
Prey drive I can deal with (love it), DA I would prefer to not if possible. I'm wanting a female and we only have the two spayed Corgis and they get along with everyone we've ever fostered, owned, and almost all of the work dogs that we've brought home. SSA I am hoping to avoid.

I didn't know there were working Borders vs not working...I don't know where to look for breeders?
__________________
~Falon~
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-20-2013, 12:54 PM
AdrianneIsabel's Avatar
AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
Glutton for Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8,893
Default

A good border terrier will have a perfect balance of on like a Malinois and off like a pit bull. They're dog friendly, human friendly, driven, and active. They are carry sized but not yappy. They're very smart but they can be hard to redirect when they have that terrier focus. They're supposedly cat friendly if raised carefully but all terriers should have exceedingly high prey drive, the kind that says who cares that your leg is broken, go go go. I love the breed and I plan to have one some day.

Jacks are very similar in many regards but from what I see they're even more over the top in energy, drive, and crazy. I think of them as Backup style Malinois where the border terrier is Sloan. When I posted a very similar thread (maybe we can find it?) I was reminded that JRT, dog tolerant but not labs per say, don't always have patience for what they consider annoying behavior, my Malinois are very annoying sometimes and it's something to be aware of.

For an all around HAPPY dog who'll love other dogs you may consider a wheaten. A well bred wheaten is a jack of all trades, literally because the Irish farmers needed them to do everything, and they should be comical and happy dogs. My groomers at work sigh and roll their eyes at wheaten a because is so annoying grooming a dog that is always so happy, the dog just wants to love on them and won't hold still for clipping. Also, they're energizer bunnies but they have an in-home off switch. My wheaten could out run/swim my game dog pit bull and hunt bred rat terrier some days. The cons are because of this joy, it's rather lab like, they can be hard to focus and find a higher value reward than ZOMG peoples & puppies! lol Mine was hard as heck to motivate by food and play but I've trained several since that renewed my faith in their drives. They're also notoriously good at being animal friendly when taught but retaining pest control ability (another trade of a farm dog, when well bred).

My Deckers rat terriers were amazing dogs. Tons of energy, stamina, amazing biddability, and a fantastic off switch. I have met a lot of undesirable dogs in show or pet bred but you can almost always pick out a hunting rat amongst the crowd. They're quiet, calm, and confident. At home they're silly, reserved with strangers (plenty of real guarding potential, Hannah was a monster if she read a threat), but controlled and it shouldn't be a fear driven awareness. They're very smart and attached but confident and shouldn't be neurotic about separation. My girls had death fights and I had to return one to the breeder but both were awesome(Hannah still doesn't like females but she tolerates them) with other dogs outside of each other. Again, pack terriers so they shouldn't have unmanageable aggression. Hannah was a fluke of health issues which lead to some behavioral issues and that's why she's with my mom now but generally speaking they're a healthy breed.

Have you considered a small GSP, vizsla, or Brittany?
__________________
Sloan von Krigbaum IPO1 CGC BH CD NA NJ PD MJ-N RATI RATN 3/7/10 -
Shamoo NJ-N RATI RATN 3/1/98 -
Phelan du Loups du Soleil CGC RATI 6/15/13 -
Chili Brigades Brover 5/23/14 -

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
Backup CGC HIC CD SRD SJ-N RATI 12/29/09 - 07/05/13

You were amazing, we did amazing things.


Harmony Canine, relationship based training.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-20-2013, 01:16 PM
AdrianneIsabel's Avatar
AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
Glutton for Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8,893
Default

Not a terrier but I seriously wonder if a nice poodle would fit your desires. Can you handle a dog needing grooming (most terriers need it, too)?
__________________
Sloan von Krigbaum IPO1 CGC BH CD NA NJ PD MJ-N RATI RATN 3/7/10 -
Shamoo NJ-N RATI RATN 3/1/98 -
Phelan du Loups du Soleil CGC RATI 6/15/13 -
Chili Brigades Brover 5/23/14 -

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
Backup CGC HIC CD SRD SJ-N RATI 12/29/09 - 07/05/13

You were amazing, we did amazing things.


Harmony Canine, relationship based training.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-20-2013, 03:23 PM
adojrts's Avatar
adojrts adojrts is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,089
Default

Don't forget that JRTS/PRTS have a far amount of same sex aggression, esp the females. Doesn't mean they can't get alone with other females (all of them spayed as well) but it can be a problem and something to consider.

For health testing: Eyes for sure (CERF) for Cataracts and PRA. There is now a DNA test for PPL. They can be prone to patella problems, don't by the 'the jack skip is normal' crap that so many people say. Legg-Perthes can also be a problem, although I have never seen it. But it is a known problem in many breeds including most terriers.

Another question you have to ask yourself, if you plan on competing in AKC/CKC you have to get a Parsons or a Russell Terrier, unless you have a spay/neutered dog.
You could consider the new Russell Terrier, from what I have been told they are not as edgy as the JRTS/PRTs. Which makes sense because most of them are non working with little or none working lines. Same health testing applies.

If you get serious about a JRT, PRT or RT, let me know. I can point you in the right direction of good breeders.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-20-2013, 04:14 PM
AmberH AmberH is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 751
Default

I'm probably zero help here since I have a mutt but you are seriously describing my Bayleigh with everything you want in a dog. She's a dream!

I don't know a whole lot about either of her breeds (Yorkshire Terrier and Shih Tzu cross -taking more after the yorkie from what I can tell) or if she's typical for either of them or if she's just a perfect blend. But, she's very driven to work, more so than my APBTs. Although she is more willing to work for a piece of kibble rather than toys and if you bring out anything of higher prize (such as real meat) she will not work at all. And if I had unlimited money and time, I know for a fact that she'd excel in every sport out there. At this time, though, we aren't actively working on anything and she's just a pet. She is very fast and athletic. We do agility stuff and weight pull for fun in the yard. She doesn't hesitate to jump off a dock. Grooming isn't a real big issue as my dog has a naturally short(ish) coat. But if you went purebred, you could shave it down every couple weeks and you'd be good.

I think most people think of a Yorkie as a dainty, froo-froo breed but Bayleigh is very hardy. I don't worry about her breaking. She doesn't take crap from the big dogs and puts them in their place quickly. With that said, she's dog friendly and cat friendly. She's an insane prey drive. She'll go after other small animals (chipmunks, birds, etc). But it's manageable and she settles easily.

I've looked into a couple of Yorkshire Terrier breeders and the one thing that is going to stop me from getting one is that they all have an outrageous price. Think $2000+ and as good as the breeder and dogs might be, I cannot justify paying that price. Now, that's just the couple I've found that I like and I haven't done a lot of research at this time as I probably won't be going that route.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-20-2013, 05:08 PM
Pops2 Pops2 is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UT
Posts: 3,072
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by adojrts View Post
I can only speak of my breed (jrts) and my experiences. I am not in the camp of don't have a jrt and cats/small animals. I firmly believe that it depends on the dog and the prospective home. We had a couple of cats for years and never had a problem. Then my old cats died, I didn't get another one and my dogs changed their attitudes where cats were concerned.

If I had a cat, I would purchase from a breeder (regardless of terrier breed) that had cats. Puppies exposed to cats and kittens or other small animals needs to happen no later than 4 wks of age. Even then it isn't a guarantee and it has nothing to do with prey drives. I have seen jrts that wouldn't hunt, that have killed cats. And I know proven working terriers that don't even give a cat a sideways glance or they play with them and are buddies.

I think that you have to ask yourself, what the worst case scenario could be and how you would manage it. Could you keep a cat safe if the terrier you purchased decided that the kitty must die? The dog that watches and waits for the perfect opportunity. Will you see the interest, see the drives turn on?

I have had a lot of jrts over the years and I have had two pups right from the get go that would attempt to kill the cat as wee pups. One of them is Punky, yet two of her littermates live with cats and no issues (so far).

Good luck and if you have any questions give me a shout and I'll try to help.
This would be equally true of most terriers that are still mostly working dogs like jagds & pats. Keep in mind that some Brits work ferrets & terriers together on rats and have dogs that'll take mink & polecats but won't look sideways at the family ferrets.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:10 AM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site