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Old 02-09-2013, 12:34 PM
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*blackrose *blackrose is offline
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Default Food for potential allergies?

Gracie is currently eating Diamond Natural's Chicken and Rice food. However, to see if Gracie's allergy issues may be food based, I'm planning to switch her over to a different food.

So, this is what they're eating now:
Quote:
Ingredients:
Chicken, chicken meal, whole grain brown rice, white rice, cracked pearled barley, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), oatmeal, dried plain beet pulp, egg product, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, fish meal, salt, potassium chloride, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.
Prior to us adopting her, she was eating Pedigree, Purina One, and Beneful in a rotation of sorts. She will be 5 in October, and her skin issues popped up about a year and a half ago, I think. We've had her since May. She's been on hydroxizine (which doesn't help), I think we've done three rounds of antibiotics (which keeps her skin cleared up while she's on them), and in a last ditch effort to avoid oral steroids we tried a betagen topical spray, which prevented her skin from breaking out (she was still itchy), but it made her skin horribly dry. I finally had enough and started her on Temaril-P and we're currently trying to find the lowest effective dose. She's done really well on it, but I'd like to try a food and see if it is maybe a food issue. Allergy testing is a bit outside my budget right now. I'm sure part of it is a grass/pollen/mold issue as she would REALLY break out if she would walk through tall grass (and for a Dachshund, that's pretty much any grass), but we had a good solid freeze spell there for a bit and she was still having issues with itchiness/skin breaking out.

So. If I were to try a food, what would you all recommend? (Raw isn't an option.) It would be great if it were cheap enough to switch all of the dogs over to it, but I understand if that isn't possible.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:50 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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Something without chicken or rice, for starters. I think Tractor Supply has a new grain-free lin of 4Health with things like fish or beef and potato. Haven't really looked at them closely yet (just happened to see them the other day), but I would imagine they're at least as good as or better than the Diamond Naturals, and run around $38 for a 30 pound bag.

Ideally, you want ONE protein source and ONE carb source, neither of which your dog has had before. So, pork or fish is probably a good choice, since most dog foods have chicken or beef. Oatmeal, potato, sweet potato, or pea might be good choices for carbs. Problem is the Diamonst Naturals has fish, chicken, rice, barley, egg - so try to avoid those. Maybe look and see what's in the TOTW boar formula? Haven't checked if that one's a single protein source yet.

With all the grains that are in the foods she's been on, I think the only way you're going to find a novel source of carbs is to go grain-free.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:53 PM
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I would start with California natural grain free. They are very limited ingredient so you can start with 5-10 pound bags and see how she does. They have all kinds of proteins (kangaroo, etc...)
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:22 PM
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JustaLilBitaLuck JustaLilBitaLuck is offline
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Ideally, like Saeleofu said, you want one carbohydrate source and one protein source - an elimination diet, of sorts. Right now I would try to eliminate chicken, beef, and gluten-grains. Canine Caviar, Instinct, PureVita, and California Natural all have formulas that would fit your needs.

Canine Caviar has two grain-inclusive formulas (Chicken & Millet, Lamb & Millet) and four grain-free formulas (Buffalo, Venison, Duck, Herring) that all use chickpeas/peas as their carbohydrate source. They are truly limited - one protein, one carbohydrate. By far my favorite limited ingredient diet. Ever.

Instinct has three grain-free limited ingredient formulas - Duck, Lamb, and Turkey. They all use tapioca as the carbohydrate source, which is nice because it's unique - not many foods include tapioca.

PureVita has three grain-free formulas (Bison, Turkey, Salmon), all use a mixture of peas and potatoes as their carbohydrate source.

California Natural has five grain-free formulas, and three grain-inclusives. My least favorite company by far (since the P&G buyout), but they do have the most options, and I have many customers who swear by it. They have a Chicken & Rice, Lamb & Rice, Herring & Barley/Oatmeal/Sweet Potato for their grain-inclusives, and then a Kangaroo & Lentils/Peas, Chicken & Peas, Lamb & Peas/Potatoes, Venison & Peas/Potatoes, and Salmon & Peas/Lentils for thier grain-inclusive.

There are many theories in Chinese medicine in regards to heating/cooling properties of foods. Dogs that have allergies/inflammation are typically considered "hot" so you would feed cooling or neutral meats to cool them down, and avoid warming or hot meats. In dog food, the protein/meat source is making up the variety of the diet, so that piece is the most important to consider. However, the carbohydrate source might need be taken into consideration too.

Cooling: rabbit, duck, barley, milllet
Neutral: beef, bison, salmon, herring, rice, rye, lentils, peas
Warming: turkey, chicken, sweet potatoes, oats
Hot: lamb, venison

So, based on that, my top choices would be Canine Caviar Duck, Canine Caviar Herring, PureVita Bison, PureVita Salmon, Instinct Duck, California Natural Herring, or California Natural Salmon. I have no idea where Kangaroo is on the scale of warming/cooling. I suppose it's not a commonly eaten food lol.

Good luck!
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:34 PM
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For finance purposes, I was going to try switching her to 4Health Salmon and Potato before spending the big bucks for a bag of food. Do you guys see anything that I should be steering away from in this food that may potentially cause a problem?
Quote:
Ingredients:
Salmon, ocean fish meal (a source of fish oil), potatoes, peas, cracked pearled barley, egg product, millet, canola oil, tomato pomace, natural flavor, flaxseed, salt, choline chloride, dried chicory root, glucosamine hydrochloride, dried kelp, carrots, apples, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, dried skim milk, cranberries, rosemary extract, parsley flake, yucca schidigera extract, L-Carnitine, chondroitin sulfate, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.
It still has barley in it, and egg, but besides that I can't really see any obvious "triggers". She eats cooked egg once a week (when we make a big Sunday breakfast), so I can't imagine the egg will be a problem. Barley, I don't know about, but even the California Natural (non grain free) has barely.

Or, looks like they have a grain free versions now that are still in my poor-college-student budget:
Quote:
Ingredients:
Whitefish, Fish Meal, Pea Protein, Dried Peas, Tapioca, Whole Potato, Sunflower Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Whole Flaxseed, Natural Flavor, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Fish Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Choline Chloride, Manganese Proteinate, L-Carnitine, Copper Proteinate, Niacin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Folic Acid.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min) 25.0%, Crude Fat (min) 14.0%, Crude Fiber (max) 4.0%, Moisture (max) 10.0%, Zinc (min) 200 mg/kg, Selenium (min ) 0.4 mg/kg, Vitamin E (min) 300 IU/kg, *Omega-6 (min) 2.5%,*Omega-3 (min) 0.4%, *Glucosamine (Naturally occurring) (min) 300 mg/kg, *Chondroitin Sulfate (Naturally occurring) (min) 100 mg/kg

*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO dog food nutrient profile.

Caloric Content:
3,500 kilocalories per kilogram (kcal/kg, calculated) of Metabolizable Energy (ME) on an as fed basis.
Quote:
Ingredients:
Beef, Beef Meal, Pea Protein, Whole Potato, Dried Peas, Tapioca, Sunflower Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Whole Flaxseed, Natural Flavor, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Beef Tallow (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Choline Chloride, Manganese Proteinate, L-Carnitine, Copper Proteinate, Niacin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Folic Acid.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min) 28.0%, Crude Fat (min) 15.0%, Crude Fiber (max) 4.0%, Moisture (max) 10.0%, Zinc (min) 200 mg/kg, Selenium (min ) 0.4 mg/kg, Vitamin E (min) 300 IU/kg, *Omega-6 (min) 2.5%, *Omega-3 (min) 0.4%, *Glucosamine (Naturally occurring) (min) 300 mg/kg, *Chondroitin Sulfate (Naturally occurring) (min) 100 mg/kg

*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO dog food nutrient profile.

Caloric Content:
3,580 kilocalories per kilogram (kcal/kg, calculated) of Metabolizable Energy (ME) on an as fed basis.
The Turkey + Potato version is out, as it lists "poultry meal" and "poultry fat", and if I'm trying to eliminate chicken, that won't work out too well.
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Last edited by *blackrose; 02-17-2013 at 08:45 PM.
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  #6  
Old 02-17-2013, 08:41 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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I know a collie that's VERY allergic to both peas and potatoes. Go figure. But in general, it's probably a good starting point. Barley is a grain, but it's not as common of an allergen as most of the other grains are.

Egg is only a problem is that's what she's reacting to. For some dogs, once a week is enough to set off a reaction. BUT, in general, egg isn't a common allergen in dogs, as least from what I've seen. Chicken, though, is a very common allergen, so switching to fish is probably good.
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:37 AM
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I'm feeding 4Health and my dogs love it. I would go ahead and buy the 4Health.
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:56 PM
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Well, I didn't feel like driving all the way across town to go to TSC, so I stopped by the local feed depot and picked up the dog food there.

Gracie will be trying California Naturals Grain Free Venison formula.
Quote:
Venison Meal, Peas, Potatoes, Sunflower Oil (Naturally Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Pea Fiber, Natural Flavors, Potassium Chloride, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Iodate), Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Betaine Hydrochloride, Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Riboflavin Supplement, Beta Carotene, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid), Taurine.
Her 15lb bag cost almost as much as the 40lb bag of food I bought for the other two, but it will have been worth it if it keeps her allergies in check. I'm hoping that this bag will last her at least 6-8 weeks and that by then I'll start seeing results. If I begin to see an improvement and a food allergy is looking likely, I'm going to try switching her to the 4Health grain free fish formula. Then if she reacts, I know it is either the fish (which is doubtful) or the beet pulp/flaxseed.

Wish me (and her) luck!
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:05 PM
JessLough JessLough is offline
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Isn't Gracie the dachshund? If so, a 15lb bag should definitely last her at least 8 weeks. Rosey (40lbs) gets about 2 cups of food a day and a 15lb bag lasts us about 4-5 weeks.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:47 PM
Roger Biduk Roger Biduk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *blackrose View Post
Gracie is currently eating Diamond Natural's Chicken and Rice food. However, to see if Gracie's allergy issues may be food based, I'm planning to switch her over to a different food.

So, this is what they're eating now:


Prior to us adopting her, she was eating Pedigree, Purina One, and Beneful in a rotation of sorts. She will be 5 in October, and her skin issues popped up about a year and a half ago, I think. We've had her since May. She's been on hydroxizine (which doesn't help), I think we've done three rounds of antibiotics (which keeps her skin cleared up while she's on them), and in a last ditch effort to avoid oral steroids we tried a betagen topical spray, which prevented her skin from breaking out (she was still itchy), but it made her skin horribly dry. I finally had enough and started her on Temaril-P and we're currently trying to find the lowest effective dose. She's done really well on it, but I'd like to try a food and see if it is maybe a food issue. Allergy testing is a bit outside my budget right now. I'm sure part of it is a grass/pollen/mold issue as she would REALLY break out if she would walk through tall grass (and for a Dachshund, that's pretty much any grass), but we had a good solid freeze spell there for a bit and she was still having issues with itchiness/skin breaking out.

So. If I were to try a food, what would you all recommend? (Raw isn't an option.) It would be great if it were cheap enough to switch all of the dogs over to it, but I understand if that isn't possible.
Hello blackrose,

I don’t know where to start, Gracie’s had a rough time right from the beginning.
Bad food and steroids are a recipe for disaster... Gracie can’t be doing well.
The first thing you should do is visit a holistic vet in your area. They are experts in diet and drug therapy (steroids) and will tell you much of what I’m writing about. If there’s none around, here’s a list of 58 holistic vets in the U.S., most do phone consultations. Gracie needs this big-time.

The best diet you could feed Gracie is a biologically/species-appropriate raw meat diet. This could also be bought frozen, ready-made.
Wet food is next best followed by kibble following the above criteria.

Pet foods from Purina and Pedigree are among the absolute worst on the market. Most have no meat (Gracie is a carnivore) and the ingredients are a “who’s who” of what to avoid, some even being carcinogens.
Beneful is in the midst of a media nightmare, being accused of poisoning dogs.
Here’s a site titled 443 Complaints and Reviews about Purina Beneful Pet Foods.

Diamond Natural's Chicken and Rice is not a good food. The good thing is that this food doesn’t have the dangerous ingredients that are in Purina and Pedigree. But the following ingredients should definitely be avoided in cat/dog foods:
Whole grain brown rice, white rice, cracked pearled barley, oatmeal, dried plain beet pulp, egg product, fish meal, salt.

Four of the first seven ingredients are grains which are horrible for carnivores and cause allergies and a host of other problems. Holistic vets have said that grains cause most or all of the illnesses and diseases that pet owners pay vets thousands of dollars to cure.

Dried plain beet pulp - waste product, pure junk. Cheap filler/fiber causes sugar rush/addiction to food, hyperactivity and allergies.
May cause allergies, seizures, skin problems such as itching and excessive shedding, ear and eye infections and causes irritable bowel problems.
Dried beet pulp is known to be an artificial stool hardener. This is dangerous because when the stool remains in the colon too long, it exudes toxins into the blood stream, which could lead to a variety of short term (E.Coli) or long term health problems.
Sugar in beet pulp causes diabetes, hypoglycemia, weight gain, nervousness and fearful behavior, cataracts, ill health in general and a host of other symptoms and diseases.
Even if they say the sugar is "removed" this is not a good ingrfedient.
In nature, carnivores (dogs) do not eat dried beet pulp.

Egg Product - Cheap source of protein, waste product of egg industry, can contain undeveloped and diseased eggs, floor sweepings, etc. Not fit for human consumption. Found in low quality pet food.
Pet foods containing quality ingredients never, ever use dried egg product in any of their foods. They only uses fresh, whole eggs.

Fish Meal - Generic product name, waste not fit for human consumption. Often from from rancid fish, high mercury content.
This particular ingredient is anonymous, meaning it doesn’t even specify the fish source because the manufacturers don’t know what they are!
Made from unspecified parts of unspecified fish. The origin of the fish are definitely suspect, as they aren’t named. If the manufacturers wanted you to know what the sources were, they’d name them.
According to U.S. law (Coast Guard, Department of Homeland Security) fish meal MUST be preserved with ethoxyquin, a know carcinogen. http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/fishmeal.html.
Plus, fish meal is often imported from China, which is rarely a good thing.

Salt – Added salt has no place in pet foods. Can lead to stomach ailments and pancreatitis. Dogs, especially large breeds who gulp too much water after eating salty food may develop a life-threatening condition called bloat during which the stomach fills with gas and twists, leading to painful death unless emergency medical help is received immediately.

Pet foods containing quality ingredients never use the above ingredients in any of their foods.
You will never find these ingredients in high quality commercially available pet foods, nor will you ever find it in healthy recipes for homemade pet meals. Where you’ll find it are in very affordable, highly processed, very low-quality pet foods.

Diamond sells a brand of grain-free foods but the problem is on their website I can’t find the ingredient list, which is unusual.
If you just want to feed kibble, the best is Orijen. Contains up to eleven fish/meat ingredients, voted best pet food for three years in a row.
I’ll comment on steroids in another post.

My equation:
No annual vaccinations + no misuse or overuse of drugs (corticosteroids, steroids, antibiotics, etc.) + feeding a species [biologically] appropriate diet = Healthiest Cats/Dogs = No Vet Visits = Unhappy Vets, AVMA, AAHA & Big Pharma = Happiest Cats/Dogs = Happiest Pet Parents!

Best regards, Roger Biduk
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