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  #41  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:18 AM
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society can't really find fat people unattractive, because the majority of our society is fat and there are still a lot of single thin people.

So they don't make clothes for plus sized people. It's not their market, they're hardly unique. In fact, most places didn't. They had completely separate plus sized stores. More recently more retailers used big and tall and plus sized sections in which clothes found there usually weren't anything like the rest of the store. Today they have changed sizes and larger sizes now have smaller numbers and they have moved a lot of former "plus" sizes into "regular" clothes groups.

Besides, most clothes are made by slave labor in horrible conditions so we can buy cheap clothes. There's such an abundance of clothes a lot of clothes you drop off at donation sites get burned because 3rd world charities don't even want to store them all, they have too many the way it is. Again, this isn't unique to Abercrombie.

I dont' shop there mostly because I find their ad campaigns and such to be nothing more than spiced up child porn. I'm not their market I'm sure and this isn't going to make me more or less likely to go buy something from there anyway.
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  #42  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by milos_mommy View Post
If the older generation of my family sees someone overweight on the beach in a bikini, they say things like "ewwww" "DOES SHE OWN A MIRROR?!?" "that should be illegal" "is she trying to make people sick?" etc. Their reactions are 100 times more disgusting and disturbing than anyone who is overweight or even obese's body will ever be to me.
I'm not entirely sure this is an age thing. My sister told me that fat people should be shamed at the doctor's office because they're fat and therefore all their health issues are their fault. She's 29, went to the same high school and college as I did and is brilliant but has traded on her looks all her life.

I think in certain subsets the fat hatred is subsiding but...I dunno. I see a lot more acceptance online in the forums I hang out on than I do in real life. I don't know if it's because it's easier to say it than to do it, or if it's just a biased sample on the forums.
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  #43  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
It's not a skewed view of what you're saying but I think you're misunderstanding what I am saying.

I'm not talking about somebody finding fat chicks unattractive.
I'm talking about somebody saying I HATE fat chicks.

Racism isn't "I just don't find black people/Asians/Indians/Mexicans/whatever attractive."
It's "I HATE such-and-such race."


One is fine. The other is not.

(Hint: it's the one where hate is involved.)
Well honestly I think when most people say "I hate fat people" they don't really HATE fat people. They hate fat people the way they hate broccoli, or the way I love ice cream. JMO. The only people who I've encountered who I think really, truly HATE fat people have all been skinny people who used to be fat. Which always makes me scratch my head, but is a tangent.


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And I think it's incredibly sad that it's common enough that the response is just "Oh there's another guy who hates fat chicks *yawn*" or "It is what it is."
Sigh. Yes, you really DO have a skewed idea of what I mean. But again, I'm not using hate as HATE. I really am using it interchangeably with "finding unattractive" because honestly... I don't think it's true hate.

I just mean, I don't let it affect me. It's nothing to me if he doesn't find me attractive (obviously semantics are in play here). And it's ok if he does. Frankly I don't find him attractive, either.

But it's ok if you find me sad. It doesn't affect me. I'm going to take my sad, fat ass off to a baseball game now, and afterwards I'll probably get laid since my husband LOVES sad old fat chicks, and we won't shop at Abercrombie AT ALL.


ETA: I've wasted far, far too much energy over the years actually BEING sad about people thinking I'm ugly because I'm fat. Just not interested in doing that anymore. Interesting that you find that sad while I find it liberating.
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  #44  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:32 AM
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I'd like to add... I do judge people ALL THE TIME in my head.

All the time.

I look at it as my problem not theirs though, and I often wish I had the balls to not care about my odd roll of podge and not care about getting a hair cut etc.

But I also don't share my thoughts with the general public, and I'm not a market leader in women's fashion, and I know it's bad!! But I'm also totally brainwashed.

I think all sectors of society judge, it's not really about that. I don't penalise people for how they look. I don't laugh and point at people. You wouldn't even know what goes through my head. I'm not a saint though.

It's about marketing, and being told you have to look a certain way to make someone else feel rich and 99% of people who don't look that way feel bad.

We all have ideas of what we find beautiful, it's about WHY we think that.

If you don't feel you're influenced by adverts and marketing then you're mad!!

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People are taking the **** out of you everyday. They butt into your life, take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that imply youíre not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else. They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the most sophisticated technology the world has ever seen and they bully you with it. They are The Advertisers and they are laughing at you. You, however, are forbidden to touch them. Trademarks, intellectual property rights and copyright law mean advertisers can say what they like wherever they like with total impunity. **** that. Any advert in a public space that gives you no choice whether you see it or not is yours. Itís yours to take, re-arrange and re-use. You can do whatever you like with it. Asking for permission is like asking to keep a rock someone just threw at your head. You owe the companies nothing. Less than nothing, you especially donít owe them any courtesy. They owe you. They have re-arranged the world to put themselves in front of you. They never asked for your permission, donít even start asking for theirs.
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  #45  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
Beauty and race are completely different things. Race is not a subjective feature. Either someone is black or they are not. Beauty is subjective. And it's ok for someone to find fat people unattractive.

The problem is that in our society IMO is that finding fat people unattractive has become "normal." And yes, that is what it is. Acknowledging that it is a problem doesn't mean I don't think it IS a problem. Racism is what it is, too. Some people hate black people, or Asian people. That just... is what it is. Does that make me a racist?

Do I like it? No. Is my rage going to change it? No. Is boycotting Abercrombie going to change it? No. What is going to change it? Individuals being willing to be open about their unconventional tastes, and media being willing to step outside of the objective standard's mold. It will take time - just like racism is taking time to fight.
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  #46  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:35 AM
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Yeah, my experiences with people's reactions might be skewed by a variety of things, such as the majority of my experiences with people in another generation are either my family (who are mostly huge jerks) or employers (who probably aren't going to tell me how they feel about fat people)...and most of my friends are pretty well-educated, progressively minded people.

Sass - I understood what you're saying, and my posts weren't really a response to that. Just that I think people are becoming more aware of the issue.

But I do disagree, and I think this instance WILL have some effect on things. Why?

1. People who shop at Abercrombie may not even THINK about this. If Abercrombie carries their size, they might not ever consider the stores stance on social issues. But, they'll think about it now.

2. And they won't just think about it when they go to Abercrombie. This might make people realize stores only cater to a specific demographic intentionally, and the motives behind it are disturbed. Now that they're thought about this, lots of people will be more likely to seek out stores that have a positive stance on weight discrimination.

3. Other stores are going to notice this negative press, and they're going to want to do the opposite of what this CEO is doing. Even if it's just a marketing scheme, it's still a plus if CEOs of major clothing companies stand up and say "We want to make people of every size feel comfortable shopping here".

4. Aside from the response of wanting to take the opposite stance of Abercrombie, places might incorporate this into their marketing. After this, more companies will actively seek out advertising with plus-size or unconventional models. Some companies already do that (Dove is one example), more are going to follow in response to this. People are going to see more variety in the body types and looks on billboards, and feel more comfortable expressing an appreciation or attraction for that.

5. Social media. I've yet to see any meme, video, commentary on how this CEO is "cool". A lot of impressionable middle schoolers and young high schoolers see all the facebook, tumblr, twitter, youtube posts bashing this CEO. And they're going to think, consciously or subconsciously, that they do not want to share this guy's views or attitude.

Abercrombie going out of business or doing poorly would not change a thing. But the publicity that is coming from this will have some (small or large, I don't know) effect on the industry.
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  #47  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by milos_mommy View Post
Abercrombie going out of business or doing poorly would not change a thing. But the publicity that is coming from this will have some (small or large, I don't know) effect on the industry.
True. I can see the ad campaigns - "Shop at Old Navy - clothes to fit a dingy or a tug boat"

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  #48  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:50 AM
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I must really be more of a loser than most, I don't buy clothes with a conscious for the most part.

I buy cheap and I buy functionally cute. A&F has always been a rip off so my mom wouldn't allow it, even when my entire closet came from Nordstroms. I just... never cared. The fact they have always been elitists never made me feel any different, I'm not sure that it does now.

I expect most CEOs have far dirtier beliefs. Those that I know known have been atrocious people, you rarely get to the top by being a sweet person.
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  #49  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
Beauty and race are completely different things. Race is not a subjective feature. Either someone is black or they are not. Beauty is subjective. And it's ok for someone to find fat people unattractive.

The problem is that in our society IMO is that finding fat people unattractive has become "normal." And yes, that is what it is. Acknowledging that it is a problem doesn't mean I don't think it IS a problem. Racism is what it is, too. Some people hate black people, or Asian people. That just... is what it is. Does that make me a racist?

Do I like it? No. Is my rage going to change it? No. Is boycotting Abercrombie going to change it? No. What is going to change it? Individuals being willing to be open about their unconventional tastes, and media being willing to step outside of the objective standard's mold. It will take time - just like racism is taking time to fight.
This.

I don't think you can compare racism with someone not liking fat people. Someone can't control their race, they can control their weight. Just an observation.
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  #50  
Old 05-15-2013, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Barbara! View Post
This.

I don't think you can compare racism with someone not liking fat people. Someone can't control their race, they can control their weight. Just an observation.
If it was easy to control your weight, there wouldn't be any fat people
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