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  #11  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by milos_mommy View Post
I didn't shop in Abercrombie as a teen, because I didn't want to be associated with the kind of people who DID shop there...and I think I was in 9th grade when I found out about the racism and discrimination that went on within the company. There have been plenty of lawsuits against them, and I don't know why all of a sudden this is blowing up?
This. And I think it's blowing up because this is this first time a lot of people are hearing about this. I think a lot of kids shop there because its cool and have no clue about the awful part of it. Shopping there just because its cool even though its a **** t-shirt for $50 is messed up in itself, but is a separate (but related) issue.
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  #12  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ~Dixie's_Mom~ View Post
Maybe it's "silently" endorsed elsewhere, but when someone comes out and SAYS that. No. Just no.
I've been "too fat" for basically my whole adult life, and whether anyone just comes out and says it or not... honestly his position is nothing new. He's not the enemy, the objective standard of beauty is the enemy. He's just a symptom of it. So I guess it's just hard for me to drum up much outrage towards him in particular.

I'd rather see people feel brave and comfortable enough to overtly embrace their personal tastes in beauty regardless of how unconventional they are or whether they adhere to the objective standard than spend their energy on a guy like this. It's starting to slowly creep into advertising, TV shows, and movies. And I think THAT kind of stuff will do far more good than boycotting Abercrombie.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:13 AM
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Is it, though? We live in a society that tacitly embraces his opinion. But it's not like people who agree with him are going to hold a rally giving out free clothes to conventionally attractive people or shout YEA PREACH IT BRO all over FB... they're going to quietly murmur among themselves and shop at his stores. Probably while he pats himself on the back for all the free advertising he's getting.
I think so. Their sales have been consistently going down over the past few years, and they've really had to change their pricing. They've been losing their "cool" factor and I think this will sour the brand even more. More and more companies are leaning on the "ethical" side of things, and the younger generation really seems to like that. My sister is in high school, and Abercrombie is no longer the "cool" brand like it was when I was in high school 10 years ago. Brands like Toms (donates free shoes) and American Apparel (makes their clothes in the USA) are picking up steam.
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  #14  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:17 AM
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American Apparel, lol. Advertising with (as far as I've seen, correct me if I'm wrong) exclusively thin people in skimpy clothing and provocative poses is more inclusive than Abercrombie because... ?

Which is exactly my point. It's not a problem with Abercrombie or this one guy, it's a societal problem. Even if Abercrombie goes under, the objective standard of beauty will still exist. It will just go back to being quiet.
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  #15  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
American Apparel, lol. Advertising with (as far as I've seen, correct me if I'm wrong) exclusively thin people in skimpy clothing and provocative poses is more inclusive than Abercrombie because... ?

Which is exactly my point. It's not a problem with Abercrombie or this one guy, it's a societal problem. Even if Abercrombie goes under, the objective standard of beauty will still exist. It will just go back to being quiet.
It's not society as a whole, as different cultures, different countries have different ideals of what is beautiful. Even within one country.

However it IS a problem that companies like Abercrombie are part of. They don't just go after markets they CREATE markets.

Marketing is evil.... Haven't you ever heard bill hicks rant about it?

If advertising and marketing didn't exist then the 'society view' of beauty would be something completely different, and likely something a lot healthier.

They MAKE the market to sell and make money. They create what they think is beauty. Then they sell it to people.

And we all want to be liked right?

Never underestimate the power these people and companies have on making people believe that is something society believes. They all have a hand in manufacturing beauty and call it fashion.

And you better hope you conform.
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  #16  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:24 AM
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I think the guy's a douche. But it's his company I suppose and he can do what he wants. I don't really know if many people still shop there anyways. I bought one shirt from them as a teen then decided I didn't want to associate with th brand for various reasons.
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  #17  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
American Apparel, lol. Advertising with (as far as I've seen, correct me if I'm wrong) exclusively thin people in skimpy clothing and provocative poses is more inclusive than Abercrombie because... ?

Which is exactly my point. It's not a problem with Abercrombie or this one guy, it's a societal problem. Even if Abercrombie goes under, the objective standard of beauty will still exist. It will just go back to being quiet.
I'm not a fan of their clothing in the least bit but yeah, they are at least pretty ethical with how they do their manufacturing. They don't use sweatshops and they pay their employees over minimum wage. Abercrombie outsources and uses sweatshops.

Quote:
American Apparel has been subject to seven public sexual harassment lawsuits, though to date, they have all been dismissed, "thrown out," remanded to arbitration, or in one case, settled but with "no monetary liability to the company."
Quote:
As of 2008 the company employs more than 10,000 people and operates more than 200 retail locations in 20 countries.[10][102] The company pays its manufacturing employees an average of $12 per hour.[11] According to the San Francisco Chronicle the average factory worker at the company makes $80120 per day, or roughly $500 per week compared to the $3040 made daily at most other Los Angeles-based garment factories.[103] Employees also receive benefits such as paid time off, health care, company-subsidized lunches, bus passes, free English as an additional language classes, on-site massage therapists, free bicycles and on-site bike mechanics, free parking in addition to the proper lighting and ventilation.[104] Every floor of the factory includes free telephones where workers can make and receive long distance phone calls.
vs. Abercrombie:

Quote:
In November 2009, Abercrombie & Fitch was added to the "Sweatshop Hall of Shame 2010" by the worker advocacy group International Labor Rights Forum.[
Quote:
s early as 2001, American Apparel has been a vocal advocate for reform of U.S. immigration laws.[112] On May 1, 2002 American Apparel shut down its factory to allow the company's workers, many of whom are immigrants, to participate in a pro-immigration rally in downtown Los Angeles.
Quote:
[132][133] In addition, they packaged and delivered 80,000 shirts to the relief effort in New Orleans and the Gulf Coast.[134] As an underwriter of Farm Aid, American Apparel donates the blank shirts that the organization prints and sells as merchandise.
vs. Abercrombie burning their unsold clothing.

Quote:
After the passing of Prop 8 (which defines marriage in the state as one man and one woman) in California in November 2008, American Apparel launched the Legalize Gay campaign.[74] It is similar to the Legalize LA campaign, and shirts with "Legalize Gay" and "Repeal Prop 8" printed on them in the same style as the shirts of Legalize LA are sold by the company.

In June 2012 American Apparel partnered with the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation in releasing a new line of t-shirts to celebrate LGBT Pride Month.[75][76] Fifteen percent of the net sales of the shirts were donated to GLAAD.[75] Isis King modeled for this line, becoming American Apparel's first openly transgender model.[75]
vs. Abercrombie:

Quote:
A&F agreed to pay $40 million by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission ("EEOC") to all African American, Asian, and Latino applicants who were discriminated against by the company. The applicants argued that the company expected them to work only in low-visibility jobs in the back of the store. The EEOC required A&F to provide equal opportunity to everyone regardless of race, ethnicity, or gender.[73]
I've never seen their ads, but I just looked at them and yeah- I do agree that they're bad.

It's not just how Abercrombie does their advertising that makes them an extremely sleazy company- it's a combination of how they do everything.
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  #18  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
Well here's my thing... the dude can think "fat chicks" are ugly if he wants to. Tastes vary, nobody finds the same things attractive, and that's ok. Plenty of people think fat chicks are attractive. And it's HIS company, so he can do whatever he wants. I've waffled about a hundred times between whether I think he's just real dumb or he's a marketing genius with all the publicity he's getting out of this. Plenty of people hate fat chicks, too, so for every person who is outraged and boycotting there is probably someone else who is silently fist pumping and making a trip to Abercrombie.

And honestly I'm not completely sure why people are so outraged. It's not like our society doesn't basically silently endorse and embrace the myth of the objective standard of beauty. Anyone who is too fat (or too skinny or too short or too tall or too anything, for that matter) is well aware of society's position on fat chicks. He's just saying it out loud. Again, not sure if he's a marketing genius or a marketing moron. But the whole thing just gets a big "meh" from me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
Is it, though? We live in a society that tacitly embraces his opinion. But it's not like people who agree with him are going to hold a rally giving out free clothes to conventionally attractive people or shout YEA PREACH IT BRO all over FB... they're going to quietly murmur among themselves and shop at his stores. Probably while he pats himself on the back for all the free advertising he's getting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
I've been "too fat" for basically my whole adult life, and whether anyone just comes out and says it or not... honestly his position is nothing new. He's not the enemy, the objective standard of beauty is the enemy. He's just a symptom of it. So I guess it's just hard for me to drum up much outrage towards him in particular.

I'd rather see people feel brave and comfortable enough to overtly embrace their personal tastes in beauty regardless of how unconventional they are or whether they adhere to the objective standard than spend their energy on a guy like this. It's starting to slowly creep into advertising, TV shows, and movies. And I think THAT kind of stuff will do far more good than boycotting Abercrombie.
I agree with these posts. (We really need to argue soon. Lets talk cold, I hate the cold.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Jessie~ View Post
I think so. Their sales have been consistently going down over the past few years, and they've really had to change their pricing. They've been losing their "cool" factor and I think this will sour the brand even more. More and more companies are leaning on the "ethical" side of things, and the younger generation really seems to like that. My sister is in high school, and Abercrombie is no longer the "cool" brand like it was when I was in high school 10 years ago. Brands like Toms (donates free shoes) and American Apparel (makes their clothes in the USA) are picking up steam.
They haven't been a skyrocketing company for a long time, unless I am misremembering, and I am having a hard time believing this is why. It's a shift in whats cool and to be totally honest I think it has far less to do with being a "fat kid hater" than we'd like to believe.

Toms are cool, I sadly do not believe they are cool because they donate shoes.

I guess I don't share the communal faith in teen morality.
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  #19  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:35 AM
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On the topic of American Apparel being somehow superior:
http://www.ibtimes.com/american-appa...leazier-296771

http://gawker.com/5560215/american-a...uglies-allowed
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  #20  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
It's not society as a whole, as different cultures, different countries have different ideals of what is beautiful. Even within one country.

However it IS a problem that companies like Abercrombie are part of. They don't just go after markets they CREATE markets.

Marketing is evil.... Haven't you ever heard bill hicks rant about it?

If advertising and marketing didn't exist then the 'society view' of beauty would be something completely different, and likely something a lot healthier.

They MAKE the market to sell and make money. They create what they think is beauty. Then they sell it to people.

And we all want to be liked right?

Never underestimate the power these people and companies have on making people believe that is something society believes. They all have a hand in manufacturing beauty and call it fashion.

And you better hope you conform.
Yes... as I said in an earlier post, what I would rather see is people feel more comfortable with expressing their varying tastes and that I'm pleased to see that starting to creep into advertising and TV shows. And I think that's far more important than taking down a single guy and a single company who is free to have his own tastes and express them.

My only point, which I thought I was making fairly clear in my earlier posts, is that THIS company and THIS guy are not my enemies - the objective standard is my enemy. So it's hard for me to waste my energy lighting my torch and pitchfork and going after him/his company in particular. He's free to have his tastes and market to them. But this debacle is a symptom of the problem. Supporting companies that are more inclusive in their advertising, being vocal about unconventional tastes... things like that are more productive IMO.

What bothers me about focusing the anger on a single man or company is that I get a feeling that if Abercrombie goes down, then... "YAY WE WON" when really... no, Abercrombie is just a small fish in a big ocean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Jessie~ View Post
I'm not a fan of their clothing in the least bit but yeah, they are at least pretty ethical with how they do their manufacturing. They don't use sweatshops and they pay their employees over minimum wage. Abercrombie outsources and uses sweatshops.

I've never seen their ads, but I just looked at them and yeah- I do agree that they're bad.

It's not just how Abercrombie does their advertising that makes them an extremely sleazy company- it's a combination of how they do everything.
Yes, but THIS debacle and the outrage surrounding it is about the dude's rant about fat chicks. So in this context I'm not sure how something like American Apparel is better. Swapping supporting one non-inclusive company for another non-inclusive company doesn't really address the root of the "fat chicks" outrage/problem at all.
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