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Old 05-10-2013, 07:46 PM
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Dogdragoness Dogdragoness is offline
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Originally Posted by Zhucca View Post
Yeah, say you have a 2yr old dog and you get pregnant. The dog displays all the same behaviours Bamm is displaying. You're saying you would put your child in danger because of that dog? What if your dog lives well into his teens; are you going to wait until you're in your 30s, 40s to have a kid? That's not reasonable for most people. If that would work for you, good for you.

I love dogs as much as anyone, but humans always come first. Everyone should be in it for the long haul when they get a dog. But unexpected things happen. Animals develop issues and sometimes are incompatible with the owner, some things training and management cannot fix.
Not to me ... Even OH knows if we are ever in an "it's me or the dog" situation he knows it would be the dog. Since I will never ever have kids I will never have to worry about this.

But ... The thing IS as a human YOU chose the dog therefore IMHO I think some obligation is in order there also. In fact part of my decision not to have kids was because of my dogs & what's best for them because I chose them, they didn't choose me. They didn get a choice.

I was just speaking hypothetically in Reference to the situation.

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Old 05-10-2013, 07:46 PM
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skittledoo skittledoo is offline
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Originally Posted by Dogdragoness View Post
This might seem a little blunt & I am sorry for that but I will Try not to be.

The dog was there first ... YOU chose HIM he didn't get to choose. You could try to work with a trainer (a good one) but be prepared for the diagnosis of "he's just not that good with kids & that's who he is" Izze ... The best dog I had hated HATED kids under 7 & I wouldn't have have her up for anything so you can understand why I prickle a little when someone wants kids but their dog isn't god with them so they contemplate getting rid of the dog so they can have kids. Sorry if I say that sounds a little selfish.

Given his tendencies & history you might have to wait til he passes on. It's only fair to him.
And that is your opinion. Do you want kids? Guessing probably not which is why you feel the way you do. You only have a certain window of opportunity to conceive. The older you get the harder it is to conceive and the higher the possibility of a high risk pregnancy. I'm not exactly having an easy time getting pregnant as it is currently and I'm almost 27 years old. Time is ticking.

When I first got Bamm I wasn't even aware of how he was with kids. I had him around a 2 year old and he seemed fine and you know what? Sometimes he does seem "fine"... And then all of a sudden he just isn't. Sometimes he shows sign that he is uncomfortable... Whale eye, lip licking etc... Sometimes he doesn't show major signs... Or at least not that are obvious to my somewhat trained eye. This is where yes a behaviorist is a good idea to get involved.

He is 7 years old. If he lives another 7 years that will put me at 33 years old. My mom had an emergency hysterectomy at 32 because of cysts that were causing her tremendous pain. I'm pretty sure I have PCOS and honestly knowing that about my mom does make me want to conceive before anything happens that makes the idea of conceiving a healthy child and having a healthy pregnancy a near impossibility.

And not once did I say I want to get rid of my dog just so I can have kids. Please don't put me in that category of people that just give up their pets willy nilly because they are having kids. It's really not that black and white. You haven't been on this forum long enough to really know me and my relationship with Bamm. I would jump off a **** cliff for that dog, but I will not put a child human being's life at major risk for any dog. If you think that's selfish then so be it. Hell, if Cricket was aggressive towards kids i'd be going over the same thoughts in my head and she is my true heart dog. That doesn't mean I don't love her, Bamm or Joey at all.
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:48 PM
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Has he been to the vet & had BW done? Maybe something is off, which makes him act the way he does.

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Old 05-10-2013, 07:54 PM
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There is a huge difference between giving up a dog because you have kids because you suddenly "don't have time" or "don't have extra money" even though you're still paying for cable and an iphone and your weekly manicure, and giving up or euthanizing a dog who is jeopardizing the safety of your children.

I also think it's incredibly skewed to judge someone who is planning on trying to conceive a child for trying to do whatever they can to protect both their dog and their family, even if that means making really hard decisions for the dog.
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:59 PM
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I'm really not sure why dogdragoness is even on this thread, she hates kids(which probably went down te lead to her dog), how could she possibly have a relatable stance and unbiased advice?
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:02 PM
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As a parent (or wanting to be a parent) you put your child's needs above all else. It is not selfish. It is SELFLESS. You putting your baby's needs above anyone else's. Sorry, but that includes the dog. Anything putting my child at risk be it a person I love, my dear dog or a wild animal is going to be dealt with in whatever way it needs to be to protect my baby from harm.

Before having children I was not a kid person. I thought the love I had for my horse and dog was the most extreme love I could feel. Then I had Briggs and nothing compares. My dogs still is my best friend. I am sitting in bed with Bandit right now listening to him breathe. He is the greatest companion I will ever have but my babies? Life would loose its meaning without them.

Anyways, ramble ramble. Amber if you feel Bamm is not stable enough after putting the work in there is no shame in going forward with your life, making the choice to have a family and letting him go. You have given him your all and most people would not have granted him that. Bamm is one lucky guy to have such an amazing person.

I have given up and done so much to be able to keep Bandit in my home. I love this dog to pieces. He is apart of my family. I would rather eat macaroni for the rest of my days than see him pass on before his natural life. But I would not hesitate to put my dog down if he was endangering anyone's child. Especially my own.
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by skittledoo View Post
I would jump off a **** cliff for that dog, but I will not put a child human being's life at major risk for any dog.
I agree, as would pretty much any sane person. I so know what you are going through. I have an unpredictably aggressive dog as well (Solo, my mutt), and he was my major learning dog as well. We have gone through so much together and I have done so much for him, but if he proved to be unsafe around a child of mine, I would not hesitate to euthanize.

Like most people here, I love my dogs an insane amount, do everything I can to keep them in optimal health, and provide them with what I think is the best dog life possible. However, potentially scarring a child physically, psychologically, or emotionally; putting a child's well being in second place, favoring a dog that has severe issues is not something that I would ever do.
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Old 05-10-2013, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
I'm really not sure why dogdragoness is even on this thread, she hates kids(which probably went down te lead to her dog), how could she possibly have a relatable stance and unbiased advice?
Lol. Dogdragoness on parenting.

I really hope Bamm does a turnaround and loves your child(ren). I really have no advice, at least nothing that hasn't been said. I would love to see how everything goes, as Gwen doesn't like children and I also have PCOS and will be looking to possibly have a child (or at least try) in the next few years.

Children come first. HUMAN children. It's great that you love your dogs, but I'm glad you realize that a baby would be more important than maybe another 7 years with one of your dogs.
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Old 05-10-2013, 09:21 PM
StillandSilent StillandSilent is offline
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Let me point out that I also hate kids and genuinley do not understand why any sane person would desire one.

I would still choose the life and safety of a child over a dog. Gambit does not have a bite history and is safe with people he knows. That said, I don't think he would be any safer then Bamm with a small child. If I desired a kid, I would have the same tough decision to make.

See a behaviorist, try the meds, and do everything possible. Then, if worst comes to worst, you will know you tried everything before euthanasia. Good luck

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Old 05-10-2013, 09:38 PM
crazedACD crazedACD is offline
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Originally Posted by mrose_s View Post

That being said, I have also lived with a very unbalanced dog (Harry) that seemed to have similar issues. He'd be fine... until he wasn't. It was unpredictable, hard to pick and when you saw the signs you had about half a second before he reacted. In the end it killed him, the worst bit is he was PTS scared and knowing he messed up. It was selfish of us not to take that option sooner.
Bad genetics, very poor early socialisation or a combination of these can sometimes just not be overcome. No matter how much you want to be able to.

Few of us here are experts and not one of us can give advice over the net without seeing the situation. Get a good trainer/behaviourist.

I had a puppy that I got out of a yard at 3-4 months old. Pit mix. He seemed fine right off, but immediately started shying from people when I took him out. I was going out places with him maybe 4-5 days a week, socializing out the wazoo. Pet stores, dog parks, we went to a benefit for a rescue at an off leash dog park. I had him out somewhere and he was sitting against my leg, my friend started approaching, I reached down to stroke him and he snapped at me. Sweet. Next dog park visit he was screeching at all the dogs, and snapping at people. On walks he would almost attack anything weird (like a trash can or a big rock that he found odd). Visited a fellow dog-nerd for an outside opinion and she was very concerned by his behavior.

Did the trainer thing, they said euthanize or manage. I managed for a while. We moved. I was in a hotel, going out the door, and I dropped the leash. He recalled after a minute but thankfully there wasn't anyone around. It snowed. My brother was on the other side of the fence in a winter jacket and Finn freaked out and attacked the fence. Thankfully he wasn't in the fence. Friend walked in my room, thankfully he was crated, he would have eaten her. My dad walked over and Finn bit his hand. Thankfully it wasn't a bad bite. At this point I had managed to train ALL warning signs out of him, he no longer barked, screeched, or snapped. He was a pretty awesome little obedience dog. He just launched himself straight for anyone in reach with the intention of biting. Saw another trainer, she seemed hopeful until he launched himself at her and grabbed ahold of her arm (thankfully layered with jackets). She wasn't as hopeful after that. I put him to sleep the next week. Too many incidents. Too many close calls. Too many "THANKFULLY!"s. He was dangerous, quite frankly, and if a major mistake was made he would have hurt someone. If it was just me in the house and I lived somewhere remote? He would still be alive.

I wholeheartedly believe you could probably manage Bamm. Crate/rotate..he could be in a bedroom or an indoor pen, put him out in a fenced yard, muzzles, it would probably be OK. But, there is always the chance of a mistake, and you have to consider Bamm's personality and how he would take to the managing. I don't think either decision (management or euthanasia) is a bad option (considering you have put time and training into him). He might be fine with a baby that is part of his family and grows up. I don't quite know how you can proof that though or ever trust him.

I think starting with a behaviorist and doing some soul searching about what you could do in your life would be a good place to start. I'm not advocating euthanasia at all (you have to live with that yourself, too, it's not easy). I'm not advocating management either. I don't really know the whole situation. Good luck though, I hope you can work it out.

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