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  #271  
Old 05-14-2013, 02:21 PM
stardogs stardogs is offline
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Originally Posted by Cardiparty View Post

Also, I can tell the OP that for the first several weeks after you give birth, you WILL feel like you've been in a car accident. You won't be able to lift over 10 lbs or so and someone *will* have to take care of your dogs for you because you will not be able to physically do it. You will be told to avoid stairs if possible and you will be cautioned against even vacuuming.

People will be in and out of your house wanting to see you and see the baby and bring food and have dinner and on and on...what's Bamm going to do then if you can't manage him? Is your husband as vigilant as you are?

I'm just trying to think back to when I first had my little man, and I can't IMAGINE having to manage a dog like that while having a newborn.
This cant be emphasized enough! There are a LOT of changes the first few weeks of new parenthood - if Bamm stays with your family, be SURE you have plans *and* back up plans in place for how to deal with these first few weeks. Have plans for c-sec recovery too, just in case - if Josh needs to improve his dog handling skills to manage Bamm during this time, make sure he's willing to AND have him work on those skills NOW.
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  #272  
Old 05-14-2013, 02:26 PM
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I am a little late to this thread, but have read it and just wanted to offer my 2 cents.

I've been bitten, with skin broken, twice. Once was breaking up a fight between two 8 month old Dobermans, which was my fault for getting in the way, but I wasn't really thinking of anything other than "get the dogs away from eachother". And the most recent was an Aussie bite because I unintentionally surprised the dog and I guess she wasn't expecting another person to be in her house. I was a little shocked and didn't even want to tell her owner until my hand started to throb and I couldn't exactly hide it, but again, it was provoked. That reaction is one I hope my dogs wouldn't have themselves (to bite when surprised), but I understood it and certainly didn't think ill of the dog.

Those are bites that I can totally understand and don't really fault a dog over. The last one, like I said, I wouldn't tolerate from my dogs very well, but I could understand it and it would be something I'd work on.

I've also had the experience of living with a very unpredictable, unstable dog. He just had no predictability about him at all and would just lunge forward to try and grab somebody. There were warning signs, but no clear triggers. What he was fine with one moment, he was not the next. Thankfully he never made contact because he was managed well in the time we had him, but he sure tried. We adopted this dog, and while they performed some sort of temperament tests on him, they barely had him long enough to really know anything about him. He was put to sleep. A dog like that is NOT a dog I would ever keep or give to anybody else. No matter how much work or time I could/would've put into him, I'd never have trusted him. Too much risk and liability. There are so many stable, non-biting dogs out there... I myself just could not justify keeping a dog like this dog around.

With that said, Bamm does not sound nearly as extreme as the dog I mentioned above. He's pretty happily lived a good life with Amber and has come a long way and made huge progress. But, he certainly appears to have a level of unpredictability about him. A dog shouldn't appear to be nice and comfortable and then freeze and stress and want to bite for no apparent reason. Behviour such as that might be manageable now, but I would be very concerned with having him around a child, and with as much time and energy as a child takes up, I can't imagine trying to balance life as a new mom, with two other dogs, and a segregated dog while giving everybody everything they need. I think I'd worry that if Bamm had to be segregated from the baby that he might become more stressed and frustrated, and thus he might take some steps backward and become more of a bite risk.

I honestly can't say what I'd do in this situation. Amber, Bamm has been with you for so long now and I know how much you love him and how heartbreaking it would be to have to figure out what's going to happen in the future regarding him. He's obviously very well loved, well trained and well managed.

I feel like if I were in this same situation, with a dog like Bamm, I'd probably give some serious thought to having to potentially euthanize. For myself, there is just too much risk involved from the sounds of things. From what has been said about him throughout the years on this forum, I just really do not think I could trust him around a child and it would likely take a lot of management in and around the home to make sure he never had a chance to injure the child. I definitely would not want to see him put into rescue for the reasons Sizzle mentioned, and I feel like rehoming him would not be easy and it'd have to be to just the right person who totally understands what they're taking on. But I know it's way easier to sit here and speculate about a dog that's not mine. This is a tough situation and one I hope to never be in. And I also don't have kids and don't know if I ever will or not at this point, nor do I have a dog I'd consider to be a bite risk toward a child or anybody else... so while I sit here and think, it's really very hard to even suggest what might be best.

With as much time and years and work that you've already put into him though, I'd likely speak to behaviourists first and give him a chance, because it's not as though he's outright aggressive and constantly biting. The bites he has had have not been good, but all in all, it sounds like he gets through most days relatively uneventfully.
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  #273  
Old 05-14-2013, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
I think that is why many of us have repeatedly said a bite is not a bite is not a bite. There is no black and white and there are many grey areas which would determine the outcome which will subsequently vary for each owner.
This...

FTR, I really know nothing about Bamm other than Skittledoo is concerned about how he will handle babies. I'm not going to make any assumptions about him based on forum posts and opinions.

And to be fair, you really don't know how ANY dog is going to react to your child. 10 years ago we came home with two preemie babies, one on an apnea monitor that loved to go off at random times with the baby in my lap breathing just fine, and had us all on edge. Our weird, socially inept, fearful dog who I thought would hate the kids absolutely adored them. Like ADORED them. Then they became mobile and he went back to making himself scarce. His last two years, when the kids were about 8, he went back to adoring them.

Our other dog, who I figured would tolerate them well, indeed did, until they got mobile and he too decided they were demon spawn. He was a dog who had no problem using teeth to make a point, but he had stellar bite inhibition, so even when one toddler fell down the stairs and landed on top of him, all he did was roar in the kid's face. Never made tooth contact. Scared the poop out of the kid, but no physical damage.

Meanwhile there are rare dogs like Bates who was eating his dinner when a visiting kid did a cartwheel and crashed on top of him. He pulled himself out from under her and licked her face twice before returning to his meal.
This is not normal.
If we all rejected combining dogs and kids unless we have a Bates-type dog, virtually no one would grow up with a dog. And that would be a shame indeed.
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  #274  
Old 05-14-2013, 02:36 PM
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Yes, its easy for any of us to say "Well, thats easy ... just euth." or I wouldnt tolorate this from MY dog." because it ISNT our dogs, its someone elses dog who we have no emotional attactment to. I think many of us would be singing a much different tune if it were our own dogs.

Its always easier to look at the situation objectively when emotions, feelings, time & energy arent involved.
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  #275  
Old 05-14-2013, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Dogdragoness View Post
Yes, its easy for any of us to say "Well, thats easy ... just euth."
I'm pretty sure no one said, or even implied that euthanizing would be "easy"
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  #276  
Old 05-14-2013, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by milos_mommy View Post
I completely agree.

I also wanted to point out, I think a lot of people using the word "bite" in very different ways. When I talk about dog bites in a way that's serious enough to consider PTS...I mean a hard, aggressive, damaging bite. Not a nip, or a bite hard enough to bruise. I mean a bite where the dog won't let go, will repeatedly bite down, or causes notable soft tissue damage.

).
Which is something Bamm did is it not?
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  #277  
Old 05-14-2013, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Cardiparty View Post
.



Also, I can tell the OP that for the first several weeks after you give birth, you WILL feel like you've been in a car accident. You won't be able to lift over 10 lbs or so and someone *will* have to take care of your dogs for you because you will not be able to physically do it. You will be told to avoid stairs if possible and you will be cautioned against even vacuuming.

People will be in and out of your house wanting to see you and see the baby and bring food and have dinner and on and on...what's Bamm going to do then if you can't manage him? Is your husband as vigilant as you are?

I'm just trying to think back to when I first had my little man, and I can't IMAGINE having to manage a dog like that while having a newborn.
I may have missed were Amber said she would need a section but in all honesty if you have a normal problem free vaginal delivery you should be fine. Yes it will be tender down there for a week or so, but to avoid lifting 10lbs?? That is a bit over the top.

It is always good to have a back up in case you don't have a perfect delivery I just had a problem with the big you will have these issues in the quoted statement. Unless of course I missed were Amber will be having a section.
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  #278  
Old 05-14-2013, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Dogdragoness View Post
Yes, its easy for any of us to say "Well, thats easy ... just euth." or I wouldnt tolorate this from MY dog." because it ISNT our dogs, its someone elses dog who we have no emotional attactment to. I think many of us would be singing a much different tune if it were our own dogs.

Yeah, nobody anywhere said it would be easy. I said it's easier to sit and speculate because he's not my dog, but I never said it's easy. It's not. I've euthanized a couple of dogs for reasons that were not physical illness or old age, and no, it's not easy. But sometimes it's the right thing, IMO. Who knows if it is in Bamm's case or not, though. Too hard to say at this point really.
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  #279  
Old 05-14-2013, 04:17 PM
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Well, that's what I was told. For two weeks after delivery, no lifting anything heavier then the baby and avoid stairs.

And I did feel like I was in a car accident for that two week period of time.

It's pretty exhausting at first.

I don't know how her birthing experience will be, but if she decides to work with her pup, then she will have to find alternate arrangements for his care until she adequately recovers.

I stand by my post.
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  #280  
Old 05-14-2013, 04:40 PM
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I agree with preparing for the worst, but I had a normal delivery and walked out of the room, ate pizza visited with family, went home 3 days later and was none the worse for wear, went back to caring for my 2 dogs and weekly water changes on the fish tanks pretty much immediately, my sons father didn't take any time off work and I was home alone.
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