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  #61  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:16 PM
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BostonBanker BostonBanker is offline
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If it is, you pay for it.... Or you try.. Or you accept your dog may have a lifelong disability.
Or you get the best diagnosis you can from the best vet you can, without the expensive scan, and treat it the best you can, and your dog could wind up being 100% fine for the rest of its life.

As someone who has spent well over $3000 trying to diagnose a potentially life-threatening health issue in my horse, I'm fully aware that there comes a point where you say "This is my limit". I've dropped close to $2000 in a day on him, probably close to $5000 over the years, and never once gotten an answer. When someone said "How about driving him to Tufts for a full body scan?" I said "that is where I have to draw a line". Maybe I shouldn't own an animal.

I couldn't do an MRI for either of my dogs at this point in my life. Luckily I found a great rehab vet who was willing to say "This is what it looks like, and I don't think x,y or z is going to tell us any more, and this is how I'd treat it at this point".

Don't get me wrong, I think Recon should be seeing a specialist (which it sounds like he is going to) and be resting (I admit, I didn't do strict crate rest with Gusto - and the vet didn't want it done - but very limited movement on very particular footing), and I wouldn't jump a dog much under a year over even little jumps or put it on any full sized equipment...but I'm not going to condemn someone for not taking out 3 new credit cards for a diagnostic test. Nor do I think they are likely condemning their dog to a lifetime of pain.
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  #62  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:17 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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You think we have it to spare?
Obviously you did. Not having it means NOT HAVING IT. Period. There is zero chance I could afford a $3500 procedure for myself OR my dogs. The money just isn't there. I don't have anything to sell to raise the money because I don't really own anything sellable. My most valuable thing are probably my camera, which is a P&S and would fetch MAYBE $80. Probably closer to $50; a few 3-packs of Frontline, which could get maybe $120 between all of it, with nothing left for my own dogs; my car, which is a piece of crap and could maybe bring in $1000, but then I'd be without a car and no way to get to work since public transit here is a joke; and my laptop, which is several years old and is quite beat up, probably couldn't sell it for more than $50-$100 considering I only bought it for $300. No available credit, nobody who could give me a loan, nothing. It's NOT THERE. We don't do MRIs at my clinic, so I couldn't do it and pay it off over time, either. We do have xrays, though, and treatment options that can be done without an MRI. We only send maybe 2 dogs a year to get an MRI done, and usually one of those ends up having something fatal, like bone cancer in the spine, that can't be treated anyway.

FWIW my vet has never had a problem finding an OCD lesion on an xray.
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  #63  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:24 PM
JessLough JessLough is offline
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Originally Posted by BostonBanker View Post
Or you get the best diagnosis you can from the best vet you can, without the expensive scan, and treat it the best you can, and your dog could wind up being 100% fine for the rest of its life.

As someone who has spent well over $3000 trying to diagnose a potentially life-threatening health issue in my horse, I'm fully aware that there comes a point where you say "This is my limit". I've dropped close to $2000 in a day on him, probably close to $5000 over the years, and never once gotten an answer. When someone said "How about driving him to Tufts for a full body scan?" I said "that is where I have to draw a line". Maybe I shouldn't own an animal.

I couldn't do an MRI for either of my dogs at this point in my life. Luckily I found a great rehab vet who was willing to say "This is what it looks like, and I don't think x,y or z is going to tell us any more, and this is how I'd treat it at this point".

Don't get me wrong, I think Recon should be seeing a specialist (which it sounds like he is going to) and be resting (I admit, I didn't do strict crate rest with Gusto - and the vet didn't want it done - but very limited movement on very particular footing), and I wouldn't jump a dog much under a year over even little jumps or put it on any full sized equipment...but I'm not going to condemn someone for not taking out 3 new credit cards for a diagnostic test. Nor do I think they are likely condemning their dog to a lifetime of pain.
This. There is always a place where somebody draws a line. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have pets, or that you care more about your dog than they do theirs... It means that they are at a different place and draw the line at a different place than you do.
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  #64  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:25 PM
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This isn't really very realistic though. In fact that kind of thinking that we must scan, order tests and get to the bottom of everything immediately is how we have such a problem with runaway costs for healthcare in this country the way it is.

In the rush to use technology many doctors and I'm sure it affects vets too, they forgot how to doctor. If all we used was protocol to order MRI's I could probably add over a million dollars myself to the bottom line here. The problem is, very few of them actually need it. And in even fewer cases are they events that it must be done sooner rather than later.

Physical exams should tell you more than an MRI

for children, absolutely I'd take a wait and see approach every time unless there was some glaring red flag that told me otherwise
I got this advice..... HERE. On chaz. From chazzers

Here!!!!!!

So I should take every ones advice....... But...... When it comes to everyone else, just don't bother... Confusing.

I'm not saying everyone can afford it. But you accept the fact your dog may have a lifelong disability or illness by not being able to pay.

We do. Trust me. We don't know how much more we can afford, we have spent more in vets bills in a month than I've spent in my LIFE.

You do it though. You just do. We all say "don't get an animal if you can't afford it".

If you can't afford it INSURE IT. We have insurance, but we insured too late. It was one of those things we kept meaning to do but never did.
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  #65  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:28 PM
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Luckily I found a great rehab vet who was willing to say "This is what it looks like, and I don't think x,y or z is going to tell us any more, and this is how I'd treat it at this point".
This. Not that I could have afford it anyways but Buzz has been recommended to have an Echocardiogram as well as an MRI in his lifetime by two different specialists. Both times my rehab vet (not the one recommending the additional testing) said "nothing in my treatment plan would change for him if we did those or not." I trust her, she knows I will spend as much as I possibly can. But I don't have thousands of dollars to spend *extra* every year on the animals.
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  #66  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
I got this advice..... HERE. On chaz. From chazzers

Here!!!!!!

So I should take every ones advice....... But...... When it comes to everyone else, just don't bother... Confusing.

I'm not saying everyone can afford it. But you accept the fact your dog may have a lifelong disability or illness by not being able to pay.

We do. Trust me. We don't know how much more we can afford, we have spent more in vets bills in a month than I've spent in my LIFE.

You do it though. You just do. We all say "don't get an animal if you can't afford it".

If you can't afford it INSURE IT. We have insurance, but we insured too late. It was one of those things we kept meaning to do but never did.
Sadly, double standards are going to happen. I try to say "this is what I would do if I could," when I give something possibly looking like medical testing advice, online.
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  #67  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:36 PM
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Just chiming in that the price of an MRI is going to vary depending on several things. If we wanted to MRI Auggie's front feet/legs/shoulders it was going to be "around $1000." I spent $1000 last year on x-rays and an ultrasound on his bladder, the year before I spent $1000 all told for his bladder surgery. Not that dropping Gs is any fun, but the price for the MRI wasn't exorbitantly higher than other things I have done.
(And of course, what did I get for my $1000 on his x-rays and ultrasound? No answers. Totally normal. He just gets bladder infections for fun. Which I suppose in and of itself is an answer because it's "nothing majorly wrong.")

Prices for vet care can vary widely just from clinic to clinic in one area not to mention across the US.
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  #68  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:40 PM
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Sadly, double standards are going to happen. I try to say "this is what I would do if I could," when I give something possibly looking like medical testing advice, online.
All I can add, is it is up to people what they do, what they pay and how they plan to pay. But it's also up to them how they deal with the responsibility of knowing they could have helped, healed and saved an otherwise curable situation.

If you can't afford it, you have to live with that guilt forever.... That sucks more than saving or insuring.

I wish we had insured from day one. We kept meaning too, I got quotes la la la... You live and learn!

And now I have no savings

I'd spend it again though, in a heartbeat. It's not been a hard decision.
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  #69  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:07 PM
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BostonBanker BostonBanker is offline
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All I can add, is it is up to people what they do, what they pay and how they plan to pay. But it's also up to them how they deal with the responsibility of knowing they could have helped, healed and saved an otherwise curable situation.

If you can't afford it, you have to live with that guilt forever.... That sucks more than saving or insuring.
Or you could do all that and Fred, or any other dog, could still be disabled forever. Or you could do all that and put yourself in massive debt and never get an answer at all (welcome to my world!). The hard thing I've learned the last six years is that it will sadly never be as black and white as "If you spend this money, all will be well". What if you paid the $3500 for the MRI (all of your savings, it sounds like) and didn't get an answer, but they suggested a $2500 exploratory surgery that might give you an answer? What if that gave you an answer, but the treatment was another $2000? I'm not kidding even a bit when I say these are the sorts of things I've dealt with (and I doubt I'm alone). An MRI is great advice; I'm glad it gave you an answer for Fred, and I have zero problem with you giving it here. My issue is with the guilt trip.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:16 PM
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Or you could do all that and Fred, or any other dog, could still be disabled forever. Or you could do all that and put yourself in massive debt and never get an answer at all (welcome to my world!). The hard thing I've learned the last six years is that it will sadly never be as black and white as "If you spend this money, all will be well". What if you paid the $3500 for the MRI (all of your savings, it sounds like) and didn't get an answer, but they suggested a $2500 exploratory surgery that might give you an answer? What if that gave you an answer, but the treatment was another $2000? I'm not kidding even a bit when I say these are the sorts of things I've dealt with (and I doubt I'm alone). An MRI is great advice; I'm glad it gave you an answer for Fred, and I have zero problem with you giving it here. My issue is with the guilt trip.
We don't know yet if he will be 100%. It is far too early to say. We talk about this DAILY.

He is still lame. He was operated on one shoulder, as the other had not come away, it might still. If it does, we have another £xxxx to pay?!!?! The scan showed it in the shoulder but the surgery showed no 'flap'.

Don't think we have answers and all is 100%... It isn't.

This thread isn't about me. This thread was an opportunity for me to share the same advice I was given. You look, you treat.

Or you deal with whatever.

If you're happy to deal. Then deal, it's your dog.

Eta, and hell yes I will feel GUILTY if it doesn't get better. I'm 99% convinced his was trauma (we think he ran into a tree, he's not the brightest bulb ) which is why it's only occurred unilaterally, but hell yes I'd feel guilty not sorting when we could.

I feel guilty daily for tons of reasons. Could we have avoided it. Should we have walked him. Should we have insured him blah blah blah.

And yes I'd feel guilty if we never treated it. And I will feel guilty if something else happens and I don't treat it! As I should!
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Owned by Bodhi Booglaoo and Fredington Holbein


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