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  #101  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:46 AM
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Laurelin Laurelin is offline
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
Yes, but would you propose it is equally as training intensive with every breed?

I have found with my malinois they never sought out those cajoling strangers, it's never been an issue to proof.

Purely talking raw dog, out of drive. I can distract and work Shamoo through offers of affection but deep down she wants that lovin from that stranger, it's in her blood and I love it, a pit bull should be nothing less than a people slut. This doesn't mean it's not trainable nor workable, but it is there.

My malinois, out of drive, sitting, waiting for something to happen might investigate a stranger but it's extremely unlikely unless prompted by us, they just doesn't hold them at a high value of interest beyond "I see you, we're cool".

Does that help explain a bit of the difference I am trying to reach?
That precisely!

Doesn't mean summer is badly trained or can't be called away to focus. You will never see summer happier than when she's getting loved on by someone.
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  #102  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:57 AM
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I worry that you think I've made any attempt to insult your dogs or their personality
Oh, if you thought I was insulted I wasn't! I thought it was an interesting discussion and one I've thought about a lot in musing about what I would like in future dogs.

When I was getting Didgie I made a plan to work from the start on getting her less into people and more into me because I wanted her a little less likely to crowd surf!
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  #103  
Old 03-22-2013, 11:08 AM
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When you all talk about people friendly, and stranger friendly - do you distinguish between indoors and outdoors?

Both mine loooooove people (well, not little ones, they are a bit odd and freaky). But only inside. And only once they have had chance to go and sniff them and suss them out. Once that's done, then everyone is for snuggling.

They wouldn't leave with a stranger, but they certainly like a fuss.

Outdoors, they are not interested. Bodhi won't even look or go near people. They try and stroke her, and she totally ignores them and walks away. I am lucky if I get a cuddle outside, she will sometimes come for a small fuss, but 2 seconds max.

Fred actually finds people a bit worrying outside, and would rather they stayed as far away from him as possible!
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  #104  
Old 03-22-2013, 11:10 AM
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AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
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When you all talk about people friendly, and stranger friendly - do you distinguish between indoors and outdoors?
Mine are the same in and out.

Actually, I thought about it and Sloan is more social in our house, she still takes being ignored and bored but she'll give in and then try to get strangers to throw her ball and snuggle, which is something she won't do out and about. Backup doesn't seem to change. Interesting question though.
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  #105  
Old 03-22-2013, 11:46 AM
SaraB SaraB is offline
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I worry that you think I've made any attempt to insult your dogs or their personality, I've said from forever that I love the way Traveler sounds and in turn all of the following Koolies, the ability to work like a border collie without the potentially freaky social issues is awesome. I *like* the way they sound, I also enjoy my dogs and their aloofness paired with handler obsession and above all else drive for the reward. When I previously said it's a selfish thing and referring to the "I'm more important that society to my dog" I wasn't saying it's impossible to have both, I just enjoy that aspect about my aloof dogs.
Insult? Nah. It takes a lot for me to get offended. I'm really enjoying the conversation! It's just such a difference in opinion really, I wouldn't want a breed that is supposed to be aloof because I'm scared of them moving to the far side of that spectrum, just like a lot of people that don't want an overly friendly dog because they don't want to deal with the far side of that spectrum either. All has to do with what you prefer!
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  #106  
Old 03-22-2013, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
When you all talk about people friendly, and stranger friendly - do you distinguish between indoors and outdoors?
See, to me, that's a training thing. They know their job outdoors and aren't distracted by strangers but I'm sure the rules are much more lenient indoors.

The majority of the OMGHAI issues I see are training and impulse control problems, not the dog's fault. If I can't be more rewarding to my dog than someone else, I'm doing something wrong. But that's just my opinion on it.
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  #107  
Old 03-22-2013, 12:40 PM
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Off topic but I'm curious about this dog's history. Did she have him as a puppy? What was he like then? When did he start this behavior?
Yes, they had him from a puppy, and she considers his issues to be probably their fault. They lived in an apartment, which didn't allow dogs, and they got permission to have a dog by promising the dog would basically never do dog things. So, he wasn't encouraged to be a puppy, he was encouraged to be very serious and in control at all times. I think they may have encouraged a bit of guardiness too. Her 2 younger Poodles are not like this.

He's 12 now, and is who he is, and she doesn't have trouble managing him, so it's not a major issue. Most of the time when he bites, it's a warning, he doesn't do damage; and he's a Poodle, so people are less likely to rush off and report the incident. If he was a sheperdy type or a bull breed, this would be a much more serious issue.

Still isn't what I would want to deal with. And as other people have said, it's a matter of extremes. No, obviously I know that there's a huge middle ground between "bites almost anyone who touches him" and "loves everyone". But from a training standpoint, trying to work through the issues of a dog like that vs a dog who wants to run up to everyone to make friends, I'd rather have the overly-friendly dog.
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  #108  
Old 03-22-2013, 12:40 PM
crazedACD crazedACD is offline
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Romeo is a manwhore. I love it. I socialized the crap out of him, we went everywhere, and people always gave him cookies. So now strangers=cookie dispensers. He sits all alert and pretty and tail wagging in front of strangers, waiting for a cookie. He's not going to maul anyone for attention though, I understand where that can be an unwanted trait.

Skye is reserved with people. You can pet her I guess, but she doesn't look like she cares. I get the "Oh she's so shy!" thing too, but she doesn't shy away, she's just not wiggly and excited to see people. She's just snobby .
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  #109  
Old 03-22-2013, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SaraB View Post
The majority of the OMGHAI issues I see are training and impulse control problems, not the dog's fault. If I can't be more rewarding to my dog than someone else, I'm doing something wrong. But that's just my opinion on it.
That tends to be my opinion too. I could easily see Pirate having become one of the OMGHAI dogs, it's not uncommon in the breed. And he does love people. But I am really rewarding. I make fun things happen! So he loves everyone, but he's still a momma's boy.
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  #110  
Old 03-22-2013, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
Yes, but would you propose it is equally as training intensive with every breed?

I have found with my malinois they never sought out those cajoling strangers, it's never been an issue to proof.

Purely talking raw dog, out of drive. I can distract and work Shamoo through offers of affection but deep down she wants that lovin from that stranger, it's in her blood and I love it, a pit bull should be nothing less than a people slut. This doesn't mean it's not trainable nor workable, but it is there.

My malinois, out of drive, sitting, waiting for something to happen might investigate a stranger but it's extremely unlikely unless prompted by us, they just doesn't hold them at a high value of interest beyond "I see you, we're cool".

Does that help explain a bit of the difference I am trying to reach?
This is what I mean exactly. I would prefer not to have a dog of either extreme, and I wouldn't want a dog who I worried would bite people or something like that... but I do have a preference for a dog who is naturally inclined to just be uninterested in strangers.

Mine are all on a continuum. Maisy is a total people slut, almost to an obsessive degree. And in a way it's cute but at the same time it's really not at all. Yes, it's a training issue, but it's SO innate in her that it's a constant battle, plus it's something I find so personally annoying that I would prefer not to have to deal with it at all. It's just a characteristic that I don't care for, just like all the characteristics that some people care for in dogs and other people don't. It certainly doesn't define her but it's one thing I would tone down about her inherent personality if I could.

Pip is pretty uninterested in strangers met out and about in public. In smaller social settings (in the house, at work, at the neighbor's) he's actually very affectionate and attention seeking but when we are out hiking or whatever he just doesn't have much interest other than random people he seems to take a shine to. He is timid/shy if people insist on approaching him, but he's not aggressive. People with good dog manners can win him over, but he doesn't generally seek strangers out. I really, really like this natural tendency, it just clicks with me.

Squash is sort of in the middle. He loves everyone and everything, but he is an orbiter and usually keeps good focus on us, too. Occasionally he goes bananas and loses his mind in the excitement of... whatever person is exciting right then... but it's more moderate.
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