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  #31  
Old 03-08-2013, 05:20 PM
DianeRushMav DianeRushMav is offline
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
One thing I did with Jack that really helped with the play biting was making a loud yelping sound when ever he bit us. It didn't take long for him to get the message.

IHMO, the issue with pushing him away is not that it's all that aversive, but that it can actually encourage the behavior if the puppy interprets it as roughhousing. One of the ways we actually get Sally revved up to play is by pushing her when she is playful. She was also a jumper and we used the "putting your knee up" method (before we knew better) and this only encouraged her as she saw it as play.
I have tried the yelping, it only works sometimes. I can see what you mean with the pushing away, because I do that as well to amp up my dogs. I have started to pick him up and set him else-where, so I will just start doing that instead,
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  #32  
Old 03-08-2013, 05:29 PM
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The thing is, he is still very young! None of this is going to work super fast. He is still a puppy, it takes many repetitions for them to figure out oh, I do this playtime ends. It takes many repetitions for them to learn impulse control. I dont know how this puppy is acting and I can tell you are frustrated but from what you have written it sounds like normal behavior with too high of expectations.

Have you ever had a terrier pup before? maybe the tenacity is not what you are used to?

The tug, honestly its not about stopping certain normal behaviors but giving them the appropriate outlet. Grabbing humans is not ok, grabbing the tug is, etc
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  #33  
Old 03-08-2013, 05:32 PM
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Correcting a dog for doing something that he doesn't know any better for us aversive and what causes aggression towards people, or fear. You're not listening to the basis behind what I am saying at all. Teaching and playing teaches him what IS OK so that he's less likely to do the behaviors he is being ignored for. This is operant conditioning, which you say you use. Addressing the behavior is not aversively correcting him, it's teaching him the appropriate behavior instead.

Eta; I own and have read control unleashed numerous times and have worked with dogs who attacked people, other dogs, etc while they were over threshold. I am currently giving private lessons to a couple with a dog that goes over threshold every time she sees another dog and will not take treats or listen to commands. Very familiar. Terrier puppies aren't over threshold, they're just terrier puppies. I've never met a dog that young that had a threshold to be over, honestly! They're your and being molded. A tug is a great way to teach impulse control, which it sounds like he's lacking a LOT of, because he's a baby.

Stand up, tug with him. Tell him to out, physically (nicely) take it from his mouth if necessary. Hold it where he cannot get it. When he stops (or if he doesn't) barking, growling, etc, give it back and tug again!
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  #34  
Old 03-08-2013, 05:44 PM
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Have you tried time outs at all?

With Siri (yay terrier puppies ) yelping and the like honestly don't do a whole heck of a lot. Not sure if that is specifically a terrier thing, but if anything it can rile her up more!

What does seem to work are time out breaks. Not only does it save your hands, but it also gives the puppy a chance to calm down before trying again.

Siri can get angry when she is frustrated, and I would not be surprised if that is what is happening here as well. For example if she is getting a little too rough during a play date and I pick her up, she gets really frustrated and has even gnashed her teeth at me a time or two. But I am persistent with her being calm before she is allowed to play again, and she is getting better. Slowly but surely.

As far as him getting angry and trying to bite when you have the tug he wants, Siri would take cheap shots at my arms and other body parts in that situation as well earlier on, when she was frustrated. With her we could just stand up and eventually she would offer something (a down, or even just backing away) so that we could reward her with access to the tug again. If he will bite your pants/body parts in that situation, what about having a chair there that you can stand on. Might seem crazy, but might also push him into offering something else, even just a shift of bodyweight into his back legs, that you can reward and eventually turn into a better game.
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  #35  
Old 03-08-2013, 05:58 PM
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Turning totally away when you ignore him might be helpful too. I've noticed that both of my dogs use turning away as way of communicating that a behavior is unacceptable. Whatever you do will likely take a bit of time though, as he has a baby brain!
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  #36  
Old 03-08-2013, 11:54 PM
DianeRushMav DianeRushMav is offline
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I am sorry if I was being rude, this entire situation really has been stressing me out. I am not trying to get angry with anyone or act like I know exactly what I am doing.

I found hes much less crazy when he tugs with my dogs, and so I have been letting him do that since they will just drag him around for awhile and tire him out. I have met terrier puppies and trained one for the first year of its life for my friend, but I guess this is maybe a side I am not used to.

I came here for help so I promise I have taken everything everyone has said in. Thank you for the time you have put into your advice and thoughts.

Edited to add:

I have been trying to tire him out, I have noticed small sessions of letting him run around before I train him makes him a little less crazy when I do work with him and it helps him sleep better. Everyone is suggesting tugging and I am willing to give it a shot. He really loves to tug. He hasnt yet really caught onto the look at what I have and if I roll it you can chase it. He loves when I move the tug around so he can chase it though, and he loves walks.
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  #37  
Old 03-09-2013, 07:44 AM
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Have you tried one of those flat toys with no stuffing for tug? Or a braided fleece, or even a long sock with a knot in the middle? He might be more interested in those than a rope toy, they seem more "alive" when you're not actively wiggling it, so it may keep his interest more.
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  #38  
Old 03-09-2013, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyinsbt View Post
Agree with the others. Normal terrier puppy, taken away from mama/litter too soon, so he didn't learn bite inhibition. He's a cute pup, there's an excellent chance you can find a rescue to take him on.
Yeah it sounds a lot how Izze was as a puppy, what worked with her was as soon as she bit ME when we were playing, I would say "NO!" Stand up & leave the room for about 30 seconds RINSE REPEAT!

Remember you must repeat whatever method you choose countless times before he seems like its working.
then ... When they hit about 4-6 mos it will seem like any training went out the window lol.

Then when they hit about 1 1/2- 2 yrs of age it's like they suddenly remember everything you taught them (you know, the stuff you thought wasn't sinking in? ).

He is cute, I think I could forgive his behavior just remember bully breed does NOT = aggressive human eating monster. It is no different then a lab, golden, or chi puppy doing the same thing
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  #39  
Old 03-09-2013, 10:39 AM
Kilter Kilter is offline
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Tugging on a toy is not eating humans for lunch. No worries.

With my guys I do tug, but the second it's mouth on me, I stop the game. They learn quickly that it's more fun to tug on the toy and follow the rules than to end the game by mouthing me. My golden was very mouthy but now only does it when she's excited.

Another thing that helps is to IGNORE the bad behavior like mouthing - you may have to get up and walk out of the room and stop the game - and focus on 'look, the tug is so much nicer to play with, I LIKE THAT'.

And remember, he's a baby, put him on a routine that includes nap time and such so he's not acting out because he's overtired. The boxer at my work was like that when she was younger and when she started to get really silly, she went into her crate and often crashed for a few hours of sleep and came out much calmer.

You can also get some bones (raw marrow bones, scrape out the marrow), kongs and other good hard to destroy chewies and have those for some calm time.
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  #40  
Old 03-09-2013, 11:39 AM
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Yeah helping never worked for us either, I just got up & turned my back & ended the game until I got an "apology" (if he comes around to the front of you & play boss &/or barks that is a doggy apology) once is apologizes, then resume play ... Same with biting when you are interacting with him, just give a form deep "no!" & strand up & turn your back, if he "throws a tantrum" (grabs your pants or otherwise puts his mouth on you) remove his mouth from you & leave the room imediately for no more them 30 sec.

I know this sounds cumbersome ... But it will pay off trust me.

I wish you were close to Texas, I would take him myself, I know a pit bull lady that might be able to find a home for him while I fostered him.

LOL if someone can get him to Texas (can't go OOS ... Just can't make the trip) I would be willing to do that ... Seriously.
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