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Old 03-03-2013, 06:23 PM
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skittledoo skittledoo is offline
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Default Dutch Shepherds

I'm definitely curious more about this breed.

One day down the road I'd really like to try out Schutzhund. I don't necessarily know that any of my current dogs would be good at it, Cricket maybe... but then again she doesn't seem to really be that interested in any bite work that I've tried to do with her so probably not. Would be nice to get my hands wet though to see if this is something I would want to commit more to down the road with a future dog.

I really don't know what kind of dog I'm going to end up with next. There are multiple breeds I really like for varying different reasons so it'll honestly depend on where I'm at in life and what I'm really looking for in a dog at the time and what my goals would be with said dog. So... on that note, I decided to venture out and learn more about other breeds for now especially breeds that would do well in different avenues I'd like to pursue: Rally/OB, Disc (currently starting Cricket in disc), SAR, maybe schutzhund if I end up moving somewhere with a good club and if I feel I can commit to it. I tend to like to dabble in different things and I know with schutzhund you have to be absolutely committed to it which is why I'd love to get out there and see it more in person, etc before deciding if I would 100% be interested. It's definitely intriguing to me though.

Which brings me to the topic of Dutch Shepherds. I know quite a bit about GSDs and Belgians, but Dutch Shepherd's I don't know too much about. We have one that started coming to my work recently and he is a serious stunner and I'm definitely a sucker for brindle, but I'd like to know more about their temperament and drive. Where do they compare with GSDs and Belgian breeds? Do they tend to be SUPER drivey? Tell me what you know. How do they tend to do with other dogs, cats, kids? Are they prone to DA, DR, separation anxiety? How do the different lines tend to compare to each other? I want to know the good, the bad and the ugly.

Definitely not deciding right now if I want a dutchie down the road, but definitely interested in learning more.
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Old 03-03-2013, 06:35 PM
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First step, you'd have to have a real breed to answer this question.

JK

Seriously though, it absolutely depends on what you're drawn to, the AKC/FCI/UKC show/sport dutch or the work/bitesport KNPV and so forth.

Over all, in my experience, they're very similar to malinois, more so than GSDs, you'll find a majority of working/sport bred have been interbred without purebred pedigree priority so variety is a given. It's definitely a breed to be bought on line/kennel, not breed alone, imo.

I can PM you a kennel I have considered putting on my "someday" list though.
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Old 03-03-2013, 07:02 PM
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Yeah, the thing is, this is going to so depend on what population of DS you mean. The FCI dogs are no longer terribly closely related to the KNPV lines in Holland, IMO. In fact, KNPV can be kind of their own thing, really, whether they're stripey or brown.

Blossom is half KNPV lines, and that means that she does indeed have some brindle dogs in her pedigree, as well as at least one GSD and a Groenendael. The KNPV Dutchies are the result of an open registry, so they're not registrable with the FCI or AKC. They're most commonly mixed with Malinois and GSDs, although from the appearance of some of the dogs, it's quite clear there are some more obscure breeds floating around that gene pool, .

I know literally nothing about the AKC/FCI lines. I do know that KNPV dogs have a reputation for being asocial and handler aggressive, and physically they are often quite large and powerful, often thickly built. That said, you can find a lot of variety, I'm sure, depending on what each kennel strives to produce. I mean, Blossom is a full 50% KNPV lines and is none of those things, temperament wise or structurally. *shrug* lol I believe that Riley and Aura are KNPV bred, maybe Jen will be of some help. Also, CharlieDog may have some info on how her girl Indy is bred and what's she like.

But, FWIW, Blossom and her littermates are typical Mals, LOL. So I think that's somewhat close to what you're looking at.
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Old 03-03-2013, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
First step, you'd have to have a real breed to answer this question.

JK
LOL I just saw this... yeah. That's kind of the problem.
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Old 03-03-2013, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily View Post
I do know that KNPV dogs have a reputation for being asocial and handler aggressive, and physically they are often quite large and powerful, often thickly built.
They're hard workers who work best in defense, they aren't as play motivated as malinois (generally speaking) and additionally can be troubling in obedience, plus they either have awesome noses or totally lack interest, again this is generally speaking in reference to those I have known which were mostly all related (I really disliked the FCI/UKC dutch I've known) and exceptions do occur especially with such an open gene pool.

As far as pets they are devoted but yes, not exactly soft.

I loved, loved, loved my TDs dutch but he ended up selling him to a working home and bought another malinois for sport. He was getting too big for the handler, physically, and just not offering the drives and enjoyment in sport training that he was looking for. The dog excelled at work however and thats how we got Q.
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Old 03-03-2013, 07:23 PM
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Really great information in this thread, will bookmark for myself, too. All I really know about Dutch Shepherds is that I don't think I would ever be capable of handling one, but I really, really want Indy

You may want to PM Falon if she doesn't see this thread. She had a Dutch Shepherd not long ago.
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Old 03-03-2013, 09:52 PM
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I'm interested in learning more about this breed as well. I briefly met my first dutchie at a trade show a few weeks ago I was kind of enamored with that dog. The owner was standing talking to someone and he was sitting behind her just absolutely INTENT and focused on the dog toys hanging on the wall. Really cool dog.

I'd love to hear more about how they are with other dogs, living with other dogs, etc? I tried researching but there wasn't much I could find.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:12 PM
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I'd probably have to quote everyone in this thread if I started quoting, so I'm just going to try to remember what I can.

From what I've been able to find out about Indy's pedigree (or lackthereof) she's got about 1/4 KNPV dogs on her fathers side, which is about the extent I know of his actual pedigree. So there are definitely some brown dogs in her lines. She's very much like a Mal in drive. Out of drive, she's bitchy with bitches. She's bitey. She's prone to alligator rolling on tugs.

When she's on, she's effing on though. Beautiful obedience, flawless focus. When she's feeling ornery though, she's a bitch. She does appear to becoming more dog selective, and doesn't have a particular fondness for certain other bitches. Which is common. She gets along fairly well with everyone really, but what I mean is that she will push a dogs buttons until she finds a weakness and then she exploits that and it's game on.

Her mothers side is straight american sport/police dogs. She was bred to be a drug dog for a police department. There was a bit of a mess as far as someone owing someone else money (politics in a particular club I'm not in, and have no desire to know more than that) and she and a littermate were given to the TD of that club as payment. Her littermate was kept as a PPD (and does well at his job, from what I hear) and she was then sold to MY TD as a possible drug dog, owing to her original intent and pedigree.

She washed out of drug training because she didn't really care about working away from the handler. So that was how I acquired her. She searches for me just fine, so I'm not sure if it was training technique (or again, lackthereof) or how the handler works, because for me, she's been nothing but TRY. And she's full of TRY. Which is one of the best things about her. Even if she's getting it wrong, she's not afraid to try again, and so far I've found very little quit in her, despite the original assessment. Her nose seems to work just fine for me though, is what I mean, lol.

She's very Mal-ish. She's a pace-pace-pacer. She's got an off switch in her crate when I'm gone, and when I'm here in her crate, but when I first pull up to the house, she fires off. She's a very quiet dog except for at that time. She's much more into watching something happen than doing, though she's perfectly content to set stuff into motion and THEN watch. But out of the crate, it's pacing and walking around like Backup with a toy stuffed in her mouth.

She's incredibly fast and can be incredibly stubborn/hardheaded, which is something I want/need. She's never done bitework, because of several factors, but I do know she could do it, though I'm not sure if she could get above club level. She's grabby with the legs, and chewy on a wedge (with me.) She'd probably be one of those dogs who wouldn't care where they got a bite, so long as they got one.

She can be a handful. She can be loud, mouthy and stubborn. She'll talk back. She blows me off in obedience routines regularly. Other stuff we do though, she's 100% work. I think she just finds routines boring and lame.

My next (planned) dog will be a Dutch, and I'll probably never have another GSD, but in all honesty, most of the Dutches I've met (which is just a few, a most of them are KNPV bred working for Police Departments) they're very much like Malinois, and if you don't think you can handle a Mal, I wouldn't get a Dutch. They can be no-touch dogs. Indy isn't no-touch, which is a priority with her, but she could care less about other people, and she's actually not too fond of my husband.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieDog View Post
most of the Dutches I've met (which is just a few, a most of them are KNPV bred working for Police Departments) they're very much like Malinois, and if you don't think you can handle a Mal, I wouldn't get a Dutch.
Their excess of size alone is a healthy deterrent to be aware of. While you can fine smaller dutch they commonly boast size as an advantage.

I will agree most dutch I know are very malinois like, often because they're so interbred. LOL I often hear the pros of being a bit less frantic and a bit more of thinkers are offset with their sheer strength and at times willful behavior.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by crazedACD View Post
I'd love to hear more about how they are with other dogs, living with other dogs, etc? I tried researching but there wasn't much I could find.
Mostly because very few people keep these kind of dogs as pets or even just house dogs.
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