Fake service dogs

[Greenmagick]

Society functions because of some rules and order. I am a pretty free for all person but the attitude of "I can do it because it doesnt hurt anybody" IMO is just wrong. Its selfish and rude. And how do you know it doesnt hurt anybody? What if there are people there with serious dog phobias? Does that not count or count less than someone who just wanted to shop and look around?

I just cant fathom the idea of "Rules and laws dont apply to me because somehow I am above them"

[Romy]

Originally Posted by Flyinsbt

I'm not arguing the illegality, but that's up to a person's discretion whether that matters to them or not. The question of whether I condemn a behavior comes down to "does it hurt anyone", and I don't think a well-behaved dog masquerading as a SD does.

Note, again, that I stipulate well behaved. Not for people to bring poorly trained dogs everywhere they go. But if the behavior of the dog is such that it brings credit to SDs, where is the harm?

How many normally well behaved pets are proofed against being body slammed by strange children? People dropping food on it? Strangers grabbing their tails and pulling on them? Getting tripped over and kicked (Accidentally) by strangers? To not be reactive to aggressive dogs snarling inches from their face when you walk past an idiot not controlling their dog? It goes on and on.

Dogs that behave well at home and on walks aren't necessarily going to do that same when place in the situations SDs have to deal with on a daily basis.

I've run into aggressive SDs too. Strider was attacked in a store by another SD that broke away from its wheelchair bound handler to go after him.

Last week some dude with a chihuahua on a flexi lead decided to (I'm assuming) be a faker and take his dog into the grocery store. As he was leaving, he stood in the doorway of the store and started texting people while his stupid untrained dog ran in a twenty food radius around him and attacked people. I had to grab my son off the ground and it bit my leg. That kind of crap, that hurts SD teams.

[Saeleofu]

a dog barking and dragging their owner might be alerting that their handler is having a panic attack and to GTFO THE WAY AND LET ME GET HER OUTSIDE. You dont know. And its not up to you even if you did know. And thats not posing a danger to anyone,

No, that is not proper SD behavior. A service dog should not bark. Barking as an alert for ANYTHING in public is unacceptable. There are other less intrusive and far better ways to alert a handler. Barking is disruptive (what if they were in a movie theatre? a play?) and a dog can be kicked out for it. Most signals/alerts are physical - a knee bump, nose poke, changing position, licking, etc.

Well, if you want to tell an arthritic retired gym teacher that it's "childish and selfish" for her to enjoy a little of her downtime at an agility trial by seeing the sights at the fair (with a dog that's trained well enough to be a therapy dog, as well as a UD), rather than twiddle her thumbs all day, then drive an hour each way on another day so she can see the fair, have at 'er. I'm not doing it.

1. Crate the dog if you want to see the fair. Coming back another day is not the only option. Your dog will be fine resting for a couple hours. May even perform better with the chance to rest. People seem to forget that dogs need rest and down time too.

2. Therapy dogs are not trained to the same level as a service dog. Not even close.


What about dogs making animals upset in fairs, zoos, etc? Service dogs are allowed in zoos, but with some limitations. If the animal in the exhibit is getting upset, you leave the exhibit. You don't take your dog to an exhibit where it would have direct contact with other animals (some zoos allow it, many don't, and I wouldn't take my dog there regardless of whether it's allowed - it upsets the zoo animals too much). It doesn't matter if the dog is ignoring the animal, the animal is often upset just because the dog is there. With only service dogs allowed, it limits the exhibit animals' exposure to dogs.

[Saeleofu]

Originally Posted by Greenmagick

Society functions because of some rules and order. I am a pretty free for all person but the attitude of "I can do it because it doesnt hurt anybody" IMO is just wrong. Its selfish and rude. And how do you know it doesnt hurt anybody? What if there are people there with serious dog phobias? Does that not count or count less than someone who just wanted to shop and look around?

I just cant fathom the idea of "Rules and laws dont apply to me because somehow I am above them"

[Flyinsbt]

Originally Posted by Greenmagick

Society functions because of some rules and order. I am a pretty free for all person but the attitude of "I can do it because it doesnt hurt anybody" IMO is just wrong. Its selfish and rude. And how do you know it doesnt hurt anybody? What if there are people there with serious dog phobias? Does that not count or count less than someone who just wanted to shop and look around?

I just cant fathom the idea of "Rules and laws dont apply to me because somehow I am above them"

As I said, it's a personal choice how someone feels about that. I know I don't obey every law all the time. I often speed, and when I was younger, I occasionally indulged in some illegal recreational drugs. *cough*. Society still continues on. So when I start condemning other people's choices, I say to myself "who am I to judge? What makes me so special that my choices are "okay", and I can condemn theirs?"

So, I just don't do it. I'm willing to condemn people for things that do harm, but choices that other people make that don't bring harm on others are not my concern. If they are illegal choices, then that person is making the choice for themself that they are willing to accept legal consequences if caught, and that is also not my concern.

And I don't buy the "serious dog phobia" as a legitimate example of doing harm. If a person has a phobia that serious about something they are so likely to encounter, I'm sorry, they need to find a way to get that phobia under control, or stay in special places where dogs are never, ever allowed, even SDs. Are midgets not supposed to go out in public because some people have achondroplasiaphobia?

[~Jessie~]

Originally Posted by Greenmagick

Society functions because of some rules and order. I am a pretty free for all person but the attitude of "I can do it because it doesnt hurt anybody" IMO is just wrong. Its selfish and rude. And how do you know it doesnt hurt anybody? What if there are people there with serious dog phobias? Does that not count or count less than someone who just wanted to shop and look around?

I just cant fathom the idea of "Rules and laws dont apply to me because somehow I am above them"

People have serious phobias, allergies, and issues with so many things, though!

What if you have a phobia of dogs and you're walking to the mailbox and someone with a dog passes you? If you're afraid of dogs, you're never going to be able to avoid them. People walk them, drive with them, sometimes they get loose and run around, etc.

What if you're allergic to rabbit and someone is wearing an angora sweater in front of you in the checkout line? What if you're allergic to perfume/cologne and someone is covered in it? What if meat offends you and you have to walk by the meat section at the grocery store?

How about the magazines in the checkout lines of the grocery stores? What if you don't want your young children to know what sex is, but there's an issue of Cosmo right in front of them?

What if you're driving 5 miles above the speed limit? Is that okay?

Or what if you pass your glass of wine to your underage child so they can "try it" because it's normal in your ethnicity to do this? Is this okay?

We've ALL broken laws/rules. I just don't see how a well behaved dog is such a Terrible Thing in a public place where they're not allowed (breaking a rule), just as driving a few miles over the speed limit (breaking a law, not just a rule) isn't.

Of course, stores can choose whether or not they want to allow dogs, but I'll stand by my original comment: if a dog is behaving as well as a service dog is supposed to behave, it's better than a misbehaving service dog.

[Shakou]

Originally Posted by Greenmagick

Society functions because of some rules and order. I am a pretty free for all person but the attitude of "I can do it because it doesnt hurt anybody" IMO is just wrong. Its selfish and rude. And how do you know it doesnt hurt anybody? What if there are people there with serious dog phobias? Does that not count or count less than someone who just wanted to shop and look around?

I just cant fathom the idea of "Rules and laws dont apply to me because somehow I am above them"

Quoting for truth!

[release the hounds]

Everybody has their own limits, but nobody is beyond it either. People break all sorts of laws every single day and I don't think any worse for them. Speed limits, dog licensing, how many cars are parked in their driveway, having a party without a permit, moving their cars a few feet to avoid a 2 hour parking rule, certain sex practices, etc.

I'd be willing to bet everybody on here is guilty of breaking a few rules every single day.

[Greenmagick]

I know multiple children who have serious dog phobias. Screaming, out of control panic. It is very sad and MANY outgrow it. Yes, sometimes they cant help being surprised by a dog being somewhere unaccepted. As a mother, I would have no problem accepting my child's freak out for the "greater good" (cant think of how to word that) of someone using a service dog...NOT ok with it because someone was being selfish and was lying about their dog.

And there are people extremely allergic to dogs...again, I would assume for service dogs they would be fine with accepting that....but they shouldnt have to for someone who doesnt NEED their dog with them.

Its a simple thing we should be taught as children...needs vs wants.

And yes, its a big huge gray area.....but for me faking a service dog clearly falls on the wrong side. I get really annoyed with people who speed up to cut in last minute in traffic too....its rude and selfish. Speeding, just going faster and not cutting people off etc I dont equate the same.

Recreational drugs...well, one can partake all they want...they can also get arrested and put in jail for it.

[Flyinsbt]

Originally Posted by Romy

How many normally well behaved pets are proofed against being body slammed by strange children? People dropping food on it? Strangers grabbing their tails and pulling on them? Getting tripped over and kicked (Accidentally) by strangers? To not be reactive to aggressive dogs snarling inches from their face when you walk past an idiot not controlling their dog? It goes on and on.

Dogs that behave well at home and on walks aren't necessarily going to do that same when place in the situations SDs have to deal with on a daily basis.
.

Yet again, I'm not saying I wouldn't consider it inappropriate for someone to have an ill-behaved dog that they were bringing somewhere as a fake SD. That means that I would expect the dog to tolerate whatever they might encounter in the environment that they were taken into as a good SD would. I would not imagine that most people who might sometimes fake the SD thing would take the dog everywhere, just certain places, so they really aren't put to the same stress as a SD.

My own dogs, who are not SDs or fake SDs could tolerate most of the stuff you mention, though they'd eat the food. Well, and Tess might react to a dog close to her snarling at her, though not if she didn't have to tolerate it for more than a few seconds.