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  #21  
Old 02-18-2013, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by SpringerLover View Post
It is more specific than proofing, you are rewarding the dog for actively moving away from/avoiding something. In essence, it gives the dog something else to think about while the dumbell is in the mouth.

I've chosen to teach a chin target first then use that to teach the "hold until I ask you to release" because if the dog's chin is solidly in my palm, there is no way the dumbell is going anywhere. I can then build from there.
A coworker is using this currently to try and fix a chewy hold and she feels like they're making progress.
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  #22  
Old 02-18-2013, 10:38 AM
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A coworker is using this currently to try and fix a chewy hold and she feels like they're making progress.
I taught it a sloppy way to Bailey but I've refined my technique a little for Frodo. We'll see where it goes, but I like the theory of it a lot.
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  #23  
Old 02-18-2013, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringerLover View Post
It is more specific than proofing, you are rewarding the dog for actively moving away from/avoiding something. In essence, it gives the dog something else to think about while the dumbell is in the mouth.

I've chosen to teach a chin target first then use that to teach the "hold until I ask you to release" because if the dog's chin is solidly in my palm, there is no way the dumbell is going anywhere. I can then build from there.
like I said, teaching it to avoid something, like a leave it, I guess you could call it "reverse luring". I don't think it's anything more than a distraction for a hold.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:46 AM
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like I said, teaching it to avoid something, like a leave it, I guess you could call it "reverse luring". I don't think it's anything more than a distraction for a hold.
When I think of "leave it" I think of the way the puppy instructor at my clinic teaches it... and then I giggle. Maybe not everyone does it that way though?

Put food on floor,
tell puppy to leave it,
puppy dives for food,
put shoe on top of food,
puppy chews on shoe,
self rewarding behavior.

Leave it means chew on shoe.

Reverse luring is marking the dog for moving away from the lure. Simplistic.
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  #25  
Old 02-18-2013, 10:53 AM
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exactly, hold a piece of food in hand, when they avoid it, mark and reward, that's how everyone I know teaches it, though none of us have ever called it "reverse luring"

explain to me the steps in using a "reverse lure" to get an active hold. That video is nothing more than clicker training
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  #26  
Old 02-18-2013, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
exactly, hold a piece of food in hand, when they avoid it, mark and reward, that's how everyone I know teaches it, though none of us have ever called it "reverse luring"

explain to me the steps in using a "reverse lure" to get an active hold. That video is nothing more than clicker training
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The Hallway Monitor Bailey VCD1 RE NAC NCC TN-N CGC 14 years
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  #27  
Old 02-18-2013, 11:12 AM
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I do think of leave it as avoid/leave anything I say including environmental distractions. I don't use leave purely for object avoidance and that occasionally trips me up in my basic obed classes when people talk about it.

I would love the difference explained as well. I may not be wrapping my head around it yet at this hour.
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  #28  
Old 02-18-2013, 11:35 AM
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End result: dog holds object in mouth continuously.
Starting behavior: dog will pick up object (since everyone whose posted so far has a dog picking the object up, and I wouldn't use reverse luring to teach the pick up anyways)

I would do a lot of pick ups with reinforcement to get the dog actively picking up the dumbell. When the dog has picked up the dumbell I would present a treat with an open hand. Close hand when dog goes for treat. Rinse and repeat. There's really not a lot of explaining to do? We're probably saying the same thing but it's really expedited some behaviors for me and allowed me to add precision to others I'd struggled with. I've also used it to teach position maintenance during heeling. The more I present to avoid, the harder the dog I'm working tries to maintain the behavior.

It's explained very well by Fanny Gott, but not online. And I am really not good at writing things out...
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To Infinity and Beyond! ARCH URO1 UCD Buzz NAC NCC S-NJC O-TN-N TG-N WV-N RL2 RLVX RN ThD CGC 5/4/1998-5/20/2014
The Hallway Monitor Bailey VCD1 RE NAC NCC TN-N CGC 14 years
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ESRA foster Diego 12 years
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  #29  
Old 02-18-2013, 12:00 PM
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That makes sense to me, thanks.
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Shamoo NJ-N RATI RATN 3/1/98 -
Phelan du Loups du Soleil CGC RATI 6/15/13 -
Chili Brigades Brover 5/23/14 -

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
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  #30  
Old 02-18-2013, 12:11 PM
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so it's just distraction training proofing. The behavior is already taught, now you're just making things more clear that hold is hold even under these circumstances. Just like heel is heel with a helper making noises and cracking a whip at your side, down is down with dogs playing around you, sit is sit with a ball rolling if front of you, etc.
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