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View Poll Results: What's your preference?
I do conformation and don't want a working dog. 3 5.56%
I have working dogs and don't want to do conformation. 15 27.78%
I'm open to suggestions... 26 48.15%
Banana cream pie. 15 27.78%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old 02-18-2013, 10:06 AM
Kilter Kilter is offline
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Not voting, not in the mood for pie.

I like and appreciate a good conformation dog, and do plan to show my guys. I think a border collie should look like a border collie, and being pretty is not a bad thing.

But I also want titles on the other end, so work on that and appreciate working drive in a dog. I love to see a good working dog too. To be clear, fast dogs who spin 100 times on course, leave drool all over the course and bark in a screechy bark the whole time on two legs while on leash, I don't have any use for. Border collies are not supposed to be manic longhaired whippet mix type dogs with no 'off' switch. No matter how fast they are in flyball.

To those that comment that the show ring has 'ruined' a breed, keep in mind that it's often because the judge does not have any other choices to pick from when he has a lineup of dogs in the ring. They can't say 'sorry, don't like any of these dogs' and send them all home. Showing more working dogs might just start to change how the dogs are bred and selected, if there are more working style dogs actually IN the ring for the judges to place. And for performance dogs, nothing like taking a pup into the ring to do nothing difficult, get lots of food and attention, and have fun before there's the pressure to perform in agility etc. where it's not as easy....
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  #32  
Old 02-18-2013, 10:34 AM
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Others may disagree, but I have breeds that do both.

Herders are good at everything! And if they look good, then that's even better.

I don't hunt, so I have ignored that in my definition of "everything".

But my dogs can do all the companion events, they herd, track, pull carts, therapy dogs, protection sports, doggie dance, and I know they can do things I haven't even thought of. They can also chase rabbits if that counts has hunting.
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  #33  
Old 02-18-2013, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilter View Post
To those that comment that the show ring has 'ruined' a breed, keep in mind that it's often because the judge does not have any other choices to pick from when he has a lineup of dogs in the ring. They can't say 'sorry, don't like any of these dogs' and send them all home.
I've occasionally fantasized about this being allowed.
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  #34  
Old 02-18-2013, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
I've occasionally fantasized about this being allowed.
AKC isn't the only conformation venue you know.
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  #35  
Old 02-18-2013, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
I've occasionally fantasized about this being allowed.
It is allowed. The judge can choose to withhold awards if they think there are no dogs worthy. It just isn't likely to get them very many judging assignments.

I've never seen it done with multiple entries in a breed, but I've seen awards withheld in both AKC & UKC. And ironically, in neither case did I think it was the right choice. (one was a SBT that was a little bit undershot. It is a fault, but not a DQ, and I don't think it's the worst thing ever. The other was an Amstaff who was apparently just not bulky enough for the judge's taste.)
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  #36  
Old 02-18-2013, 02:18 PM
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ruffiangirl ruffiangirl is offline
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I seen it happen once at a CKC (Canadian) with a Min Pin that simply should never have stepped foot in a show ring it's structure was so far off. Every show the dog had been to she was passed over so the owner started entering her in small shows hoping to get opposite (no clue why since there were no points) sex, but the judge that day excused her from the ring and withheld the ribbon!
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  #37  
Old 02-18-2013, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilter View Post
To those that comment that the show ring has 'ruined' a breed, keep in mind that it's often because the judge does not have any other choices to pick from when he has a lineup of dogs in the ring. They can't say 'sorry, don't like any of these dogs' and send them all home.
Yes they can, I've seen it done, in both AKC & UKC. I wish it was done MORE, actually!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyinsbt View Post
It is allowed. The judge can choose to withhold awards if they think there are no dogs worthy. It just isn't likely to get them very many judging assignments.

I've never seen it done with multiple entries in a breed, but I've seen awards withheld in both AKC & UKC. And ironically, in neither case did I think it was the right choice. (one was a SBT that was a little bit undershot. It is a fault, but not a DQ, and I don't think it's the worst thing ever. The other was an Amstaff who was apparently just not bulky enough for the judge's taste.)
Yup. At the last UKC show I was at the judge excused the ENTIRE class of CH APBT's for "lack of merit". It was a nice group of dogs too.. apparently the judge didn't like one of the handlers, so they all lost.

Either way, it can, and is done.



Anyway. I prefer a dog that can go from working events straight into the conformation ring. Which is why I love Sako and his breeder At the last show we were at we did weight pull, got his UWP, out to the lure coursing field to finish up his CA, then straight into the conformation ring. Love it.
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  #38  
Old 02-18-2013, 04:39 PM
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I'm working-side fan. Shows, meh, don't interest me much. Shows might interest me with a few breeds, but for the most part I prefer the working/possibly sport side for many, if not all breeds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OwnedByBCs View Post
I show my dogs (obviously, we just finished up a long show weekend ) but next weekend they will be out working. I don't see why they're mutually exclusive- if you breed with working ability as a priority and also are careful about structure and breed type, you can choose the puppy that would be most suitable for the show ring. Of course, I'll admit, that is not the best way to get a *top* show dog, but for me, I enjoy showing so much that winning isn't that important.
This is very much O/T, so feel free to reply in PM if that would be better. Have you competed in USBCHA trials? How do your dogs do? And how do they fair in the conformation ring? I've not known any (I've heard of one, I believe) who were able to excel at both, so I'm curious what type of results you've had.
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  #39  
Old 02-18-2013, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizmo View Post
I'm working-side fan. Shows, meh, don't interest me much. Shows might interest me with a few breeds, but for the most part I prefer the working/possibly sport side for many, if not all breeds.



This is very much O/T, so feel free to reply in PM if that would be better. Have you competed in USBCHA trials? How do your dogs do? And how do they fair in the conformation ring? I've not known any (I've heard of one, I believe) who were able to excel at both, so I'm curious what type of results you've had.
I don't trial. I am fortunate enough to have a very close friend with a large ranch and her own sheep, we go out there every couple of weeks and work the dogs. Basically, I get to see how they're working, she gets free help around the ranch. Its a pretty nice set up. Before I was friends with her, it was hard for me to even find someone willing to let my dogs see sheep let alone help me train them, because Sadie is a Champion (well, now a Grand Champion) and so is her half brother Pirate who we were working at the time. We went to clinics, and when asked about their lineage I would just say "They go back to early ISDS lines" which is 100% true. Yes, they also have quite a few show champions and untitled dogs in their pedigrees, but realistically I am looking at the work that *they* as individuals can do. I work all of my breeding prospects, and have chose not to use stud dogs based on unsatisfactory working ability.

Part of it is that I am honoring what our chosen respected breeders did before us. I chose to use British lines in our breeding program, which have always been a blend of ISDS and KC show lines, and a lot of my dog's ancestors were ISDS register on merit dogs from show lines. The breeding programs that my dogs stem from have always had both working ability and have shown in the breed ring. When I make breeding decisions, its not as simple as "working lines vs show lines"- and honestly I find it hilarious that people dumb it down like that- there is so much more to a Border Collie than that. My dogs are not just good at herding, and they're not just good show dogs, and they're not just good SAR dogs- the reason I love them is because they *are* talented in so many different disciplines.

I accept the fact that my breeding program will never be "satisfactory" to the show enthusiasts or the working enthusiasts. I am ok with that, because I really, really adore my dogs. I love watching them work, and I love watching them move around a show ring. My goal is not to prove that I am a worthwhile breeder to those who are determined to be against me, but to provide people with a really awesome dog that will happily compete in a variety of sports.
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  #40  
Old 02-18-2013, 05:15 PM
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Me? I want nothing less than a die hard "all around dog" Nothing extreme on any end, perfect balance and versatility.
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