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  #21  
Old 02-13-2013, 01:06 PM
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Yah, the war on Christianity. Yeah, be another religion (or atheist) in this country and then tell me about how rough the poor Christians have it.
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  #22  
Old 02-13-2013, 02:02 PM
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I don't see any actual CHRISTIANS bombing abortion clinics either Maybe they call themselves that and perhaps that is where we run into issues but that doesn't mean they ARE Christians. They are killing people and using Christianity as their crutch but that doesn't make them Christian. Those people don't have a relationship with Jesus Christ, they don't humble themselves before him and they don't carry out his word and his commands. They are listening to their flesh and just using Christianity as the excuse for their crimes. it's one thing to fall and sin in our walk but it's another entirely to blame Jesus for our violence (meaning "Christians" using Jesus as the excuse... not others blaming all Christians for these things, just to clarify lol).

There was a story locally just before Christmas of a man breaking into the home of three elderly mennonite women. he robbed them and tied them up and just left them. They ended up being left tied up for over 6 hours before someone found them and the police were called. The man was caught and when he was questioned he told police that he chose these women because they were mennonite and that he was raised mennonite and now doesn't believe in any God and he felt those women needed to be punished for continuing in their faith (I'm paraphrasing but that's what he said except he went on a tirade it seems). Now should I believe that he did this because he's Athiest and that Athiests as a whole are violent people who want to carry out their will anyway nessecary? NO lol that's wouldn't be a fair assumption at all. That man may be an athiest but he did what he did because he is a SICK BUSTARD!!

I am a Christian and we attend a wonderful church. Do I or any member of our congregation bomb clinics, go door to door or in general bring harm to others? NO we do NOT and we don't condone it either. Well wait... we did go door to door once Singing Christmas carols around the community we can disagree with things in this world due to our faith but we don't bring pain and suffering to others in the "name of Christianity" that's kind of an oxymoron.

I don't have it rough whether I am a christian or not. do I face ridicule for it? sure I do... some of it from my own family (not my mom but my dad and my sister). I live a good life with a husband who would die for me, we have food, shelter, jobs, an incredible child who touches many hearts. We are blessed. If we face some ridicule or opposition for our beliefs... OH well. It can be easy to get caught up in the drama that can sometimes come with those debates but I just have to try my hardest to stay steadfast and know that He is God and I won't change any hearts by engaging with short temper and frustration on my part. But do we have it rough? No... neither do a majority of people in this country in the grand scheme of things.
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Last edited by sparks19; 02-13-2013 at 02:26 PM.
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  #23  
Old 02-13-2013, 04:15 PM
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Nobody I've ever met thinks that all Catholics are child molesters, regardless of their belief system. The problem that they have is that the Catholic church (not Catholics, but the Catholic church and its administrators) is that they seem to just brush this stuff under the rug and ignore it. Plus, there were little to no consequences.


Yes, it could happen in any job, and I can't say that it is or isn't more prevalent in the Catholic church because the church is more in the spotlight than, say, a daycare job. The reason it gets so much flack is because the Catholic church claims to be a source of morality and a direct connection to god. They claim to be THE moral compass, the highest role model, and pedophilia is about as far away from morality as you can get. And again, when people association Catholicism with child molesters, we're not thinking that every Catholic is a child molester, but that we're disgusted that the higher-ups in the church could stand to just turn the other cheek while this stuff happens. Not to mention with your school example, those people are prosecuted by the law, but that doesn't happen with the church.


Do you realize how many "in your face atheists" there are compared to in your face Christians? Do you realize the level of in-your-face Christianity versus in-your-face atheists? There's a comic somewhere that compares militants in various belief/non-belief systems: militant Muslims and Christians resort to anywhere from violence and killing to going door-to-door, picking you out, and telling you you're going to hell, you're a horrible person, you're a-moral, you're not trust-worthy. A militant atheist sits around drinking beer talking with other atheists about the state of religion and morality. Have you ever had an atheist approach you (without prompt) and tell you that you're a horrible person or you deserve to be tortured for eternity? Or that you're not a worthy human because you don't have a relationship with an invisible man in the sky? Some atheists are becoming more vocal, and we're coming out about the corruption and hate that religion spews. We're coming out against bigotry and hatred, dismissing science, blocking progress, and such things. We're coming out against blind faith and the hatred against and distrust that comes with not accepting such blind faith.

If you think there's a "war on Christianity", take a step back and look at how completely engulfed in Christianity this country is. Despite having a separation of church and state, we still have a National Day of Prayer, and a National Prayer Breakfast. We still have the addendum in the Pledge of Allegiance that says "under god", even though it wasn't added until the 1950s in response to the communism scare. Everything around is religious.

Atheists are the most distrusted group of people in America (http://www1.umn.edu/news/news-releas..._MIG_2816.html). Why? We haven't done anything. We haven't bombed women's clinics or murdered gynecologists, we haven't done any kind of terrorist act in the name of atheism. No, not every religious person is a bigot or a terrorist. Most are perfectly good people. If you don't want us to judge you because of your beliefs, why are you going to judge us on our lack of belief?

If you get aggravated or annoyed with someone challenging your beliefs, maybe you should take another look at your beliefs. Beliefs should be challenged: either you'll come to a new realization or your beliefs with be further strengthened. Either way, it's win-win, right?


Popular media and peers are very pro-religion. They largely support these "bedtime stories" as you called them.


As the one study I linked to showed (there are many more like it, all with the same conclusion), religion is the right and cool thing. Being a bad person isn't, though.

DISCLAIMER: A lot of the things that I said in there - especially in my big huge rant - are not directed at you or anyone here in general. They are general rants about being an atheist that I commonly run into, similar to your rants about being a Christian/Catholic. Just wanted to give some input from the perspective on the other side of the fence! I am a staunch atheist and VP of the largest grassroots Atheist community in NC, so I'm pretty passionate about defending atheism, equality for all, and separation of church and state, hence my ranting about lots of that stuff.
I love everything you and Taqroy said. Can't even add anything.
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  #24  
Old 02-13-2013, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tzigane View Post
Nobody I've ever met thinks that all Catholics are child molesters, regardless of their belief system. The problem that they have is that the Catholic church (not Catholics, but the Catholic church and its administrators) is that they seem to just brush this stuff under the rug and ignore it. Plus, there were little to no consequences.


Yes, it could happen in any job, and I can't say that it is or isn't more prevalent in the Catholic church because the church is more in the spotlight than, say, a daycare job. The reason it gets so much flack is because the Catholic church claims to be a source of morality and a direct connection to god. They claim to be THE moral compass, the highest role model, and pedophilia is about as far away from morality as you can get. And again, when people association Catholicism with child molesters, we're not thinking that every Catholic is a child molester, but that we're disgusted that the higher-ups in the church could stand to just turn the other cheek while this stuff happens. Not to mention with your school example, those people are prosecuted by the law, but that doesn't happen with the church.


Do you realize how many "in your face atheists" there are compared to in your face Christians? Do you realize the level of in-your-face Christianity versus in-your-face atheists? There's a comic somewhere that compares militants in various belief/non-belief systems: militant Muslims and Christians resort to anywhere from violence and killing to going door-to-door, picking you out, and telling you you're going to hell, you're a horrible person, you're a-moral, you're not trust-worthy. A militant atheist sits around drinking beer talking with other atheists about the state of religion and morality. Have you ever had an atheist approach you (without prompt) and tell you that you're a horrible person or you deserve to be tortured for eternity? Or that you're not a worthy human because you don't have a relationship with an invisible man in the sky? Some atheists are becoming more vocal, and we're coming out about the corruption and hate that religion spews. We're coming out against bigotry and hatred, dismissing science, blocking progress, and such things. We're coming out against blind faith and the hatred against and distrust that comes with not accepting such blind faith.

If you think there's a "war on Christianity", take a step back and look at how completely engulfed in Christianity this country is. Despite having a separation of church and state, we still have a National Day of Prayer, and a National Prayer Breakfast. We still have the addendum in the Pledge of Allegiance that says "under god", even though it wasn't added until the 1950s in response to the communism scare. Everything around is religious.

Atheists are the most distrusted group of people in America (http://www1.umn.edu/news/news-releas..._MIG_2816.html). Why? We haven't done anything. We haven't bombed women's clinics or murdered gynecologists, we haven't done any kind of terrorist act in the name of atheism. No, not every religious person is a bigot or a terrorist. Most are perfectly good people. If you don't want us to judge you because of your beliefs, why are you going to judge us on our lack of belief?

If you get aggravated or annoyed with someone challenging your beliefs, maybe you should take another look at your beliefs. Beliefs should be challenged: either you'll come to a new realization or your beliefs with be further strengthened. Either way, it's win-win, right?


Popular media and peers are very pro-religion. They largely support these "bedtime stories" as you called them.


As the one study I linked to showed (there are many more like it, all with the same conclusion), religion is the right and cool thing. Being a bad person isn't, though.

DISCLAIMER: A lot of the things that I said in there - especially in my big huge rant - are not directed at you or anyone here in general. They are general rants about being an atheist that I commonly run into, similar to your rants about being a Christian/Catholic. Just wanted to give some input from the perspective on the other side of the fence! I am a staunch atheist and VP of the largest grassroots Atheist community in NC, so I'm pretty passionate about defending atheism, equality for all, and separation of church and state, hence my ranting about lots of that stuff.


Exactly. I have nothing to add.
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  #25  
Old 02-13-2013, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tzigane View Post
Nobody I've ever met thinks that all Catholics are child molesters, regardless of their belief system. The problem that they have is that the Catholic church (not Catholics, but the Catholic church and its administrators) is that they seem to just brush this stuff under the rug and ignore it. Plus, there were little to no consequences.


Yes, it could happen in any job, and I can't say that it is or isn't more prevalent in the Catholic church because the church is more in the spotlight than, say, a daycare job. The reason it gets so much flack is because the Catholic church claims to be a source of morality and a direct connection to god. They claim to be THE moral compass, the highest role model, and pedophilia is about as far away from morality as you can get. And again, when people association Catholicism with child molesters, we're not thinking that every Catholic is a child molester, but that we're disgusted that the higher-ups in the church could stand to just turn the other cheek while this stuff happens. Not to mention with your school example, those people are prosecuted by the law, but that doesn't happen with the church.


Do you realize how many "in your face atheists" there are compared to in your face Christians? Do you realize the level of in-your-face Christianity versus in-your-face atheists? There's a comic somewhere that compares militants in various belief/non-belief systems: militant Muslims and Christians resort to anywhere from violence and killing to going door-to-door, picking you out, and telling you you're going to hell, you're a horrible person, you're a-moral, you're not trust-worthy. A militant atheist sits around drinking beer talking with other atheists about the state of religion and morality. Have you ever had an atheist approach you (without prompt) and tell you that you're a horrible person or you deserve to be tortured for eternity? Or that you're not a worthy human because you don't have a relationship with an invisible man in the sky? Some atheists are becoming more vocal, and we're coming out about the corruption and hate that religion spews. We're coming out against bigotry and hatred, dismissing science, blocking progress, and such things. We're coming out against blind faith and the hatred against and distrust that comes with not accepting such blind faith.

If you think there's a "war on Christianity", take a step back and look at how completely engulfed in Christianity this country is. Despite having a separation of church and state, we still have a National Day of Prayer, and a National Prayer Breakfast. We still have the addendum in the Pledge of Allegiance that says "under god", even though it wasn't added until the 1950s in response to the communism scare. Everything around is religious.

Atheists are the most distrusted group of people in America (http://www1.umn.edu/news/news-releas..._MIG_2816.html). Why? We haven't done anything. We haven't bombed women's clinics or murdered gynecologists, we haven't done any kind of terrorist act in the name of atheism. No, not every religious person is a bigot or a terrorist. Most are perfectly good people. If you don't want us to judge you because of your beliefs, why are you going to judge us on our lack of belief?

If you get aggravated or annoyed with someone challenging your beliefs, maybe you should take another look at your beliefs. Beliefs should be challenged: either you'll come to a new realization or your beliefs with be further strengthened. Either way, it's win-win, right?


Popular media and peers are very pro-religion. They largely support these "bedtime stories" as you called them.


As the one study I linked to showed (there are many more like it, all with the same conclusion), religion is the right and cool thing. Being a bad person isn't, though.

DISCLAIMER: A lot of the things that I said in there - especially in my big huge rant - are not directed at you or anyone here in general. They are general rants about being an atheist that I commonly run into, similar to your rants about being a Christian/Catholic. Just wanted to give some input from the perspective on the other side of the fence! I am a staunch atheist and VP of the largest grassroots Atheist community in NC, so I'm pretty passionate about defending atheism, equality for all, and separation of church and state, hence my ranting about lots of that stuff.
I've been told by atheists that I'm stupid, delusional, illogical and uneducated, and yet not ONCE in my life have I told someone they are going to hell. Never. I'm going to Ash Wednesday service tonight and the plan afterward does not include going from door to door in the neighborhood and telling them they're damned. I think that any Christian that would tell anyone that is forgetting that humans don't decide what happens after death.

The VAST majority if Christians are not running door to door either. There tend to be pretty specific sets of Christian that do this, and frankly I don't like people coming to my door anymore than most people. If they don't see me I don't answer it, and if they do I'll tell them politely that I'm not interested.

I'm friends with atheists, agnostics, and very good friends with a Wiccan. DHs family are pretty devout Lutherans and one of his brothers is seriously dating an atheist, and nobody in the family is rude to her and she has discussed her atheism without criticism.

I've gone through periods of atheism, agnostic, briefly explored Wiccan and have explored Eastern religons in depth.

Frankly, other than the occasional mention of God (and even then generally used as a curse), there is very little in popular media that espouses Christian values. Premarital sex with multiple partners, divorce, porn, rampent violence, the glorification of lying and cheating--all of these is EXTREMELY common in the media, from sitcoms to reality shows. Sure, some politicians bring it up, but I think that most of us know that they are full of it.

Most Christians are not out there hating and blowing things up and harassing people-they just aren't. That's like claiming pit bulls are baby killers because of high profile news stories.

You rant about the negatives of faith, but fail to see the positives. Charity, involvement in community, support, etc. DH lost had a brother die suddenly at age 24, and their church was an incredible support to the family. My grandmother's church was a ln incredible support ti her through her illness at the end of her life. Many people feel they have literally had their lives saved by their faith-and that's many religions, not just Christian.

It hurts my heart when I do see Christians acting completely contrary to the faith they hide behind, but I can't control their actions, I can only control my own. Violence and hate is a human problem, not a God problem. Someone who would hate and kill in the name of God would hate and kill for some other reason were religion taken out if the equation.
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  #26  
Old 02-13-2013, 05:30 PM
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We had a church bus drop people off in our neighborhood this afternoon, solely so they could go door to door. This happens EVERY year, generally on a monthly basis from Feb through October. >.<

They usually ignore this sign on our door, too:

Drives.me.batty. but I'm only annoyed with this specific congregation, NOT their denomination in general.
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:47 PM
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Where are all of you getting into conversations about religion and atheism? It's a rarity for me to talk about religion/being a atheist offline. I don't even know what many of my family members believe. Is it a regional thing?

I'm technically an atheist but don't like labels. I'm doubtful any sort of gods actually exist. Religion and belief in an afterlife, ghost, gods, etc. exist mainly because of human psychology, IMO.
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:52 PM
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The old saying "Never talk politics or religion with anyone you want as a friend."

Yeah... that's totally gone these days. Especailly with facebook.
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  #29  
Old 02-13-2013, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MinPinOwner View Post
Where are all of you getting into conversations about religion and atheism? It's a rarity for me to talk about religion/being a atheist offline. I don't even know what many of my family members believe. Is it a regional thing?

I'm technically an atheist but don't like labels. I'm doubtful any sort of gods actually exist. Religion and belief in an afterlife, ghost, gods, etc. exist mainly because of human psychology, IMO.
This is actually pretty true for me too. In my day to day life it doesn't come up a whole lot other than faith based activities that we do

Every once in a while it may come up but not really debates or anything, just passing comments.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:12 PM
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Facebook? I rarely use Facebook. lol
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