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Old 02-11-2013, 08:02 PM
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Default Annoying Religion Rant

My step-dad tends to be REALLY annoying in his debates. He cannot debate me about religion PERIOD without getting way too defensive.

Tonight, with the Pope's resignation, the topic of child molesting and priests came up. All I was saying is that I don't understand how this keeps happening, and it's sickening, etc, etc. I don't feel like getting into the whole story again of what we argued about.

But basically.... he keeps saying that mostly they are homosexuals and know they can get away with it in that type of place, and take advantage of kids because they are more vulnerable or whatever. Of course he thinks it's absolutely horrible and disgusting, he's not denying that, but I kept getting SO frustrated with his constant comparison to being homosexual and being a effin' pedophile! The two just DO NOT compare, IMO. I mean, c'mon, there's tons of straight guys who rape little girls, and vice versa. And I FULLY realize that not ALL priests are bad.... just because SOME do it, does not mean they all do. Keep in mind, he has a personal connection because he grew up in Catholic schools with a very Catholic family (heh, he's one of 12 kids). He had a lot of great priests that he looks back with fond memories, etc. I GET that! However, let me not fail to mention that he is certainly no "saint" lol. This is a man who does not live like someone who is trying to be a practicing Catholic.

I was astounded by the number of priests that have been in trouble for this. But I admittedly, don't feel I have the right amount of information to be in a good debate, so I just kind of "whatever"ed it, knowing he's not going to change his mind anyway.

But I would like to inform myself on religion a bit more so he can stop using the "you can't argue something you know nothing about!" argument, even though he refuses to see the other side of things either. I've always considered myself fairly open minded about everything. I can listen to two sides and hear good in both (usually). It's just frustrating because he tells ME that I'm so "one-sided" and apparently, immediately when something about the church is spoken of, I don't look at the good, yet he is the same way and he doesn't look at the "other side" of the argument either! The first time a "bad" story about a gay person comes out he is the first to say "see?! this is why this isn't good..."

Does anyone have a lot of first hand knowledge about Catholicism, or a good read? I'm curious on the downfall, it seems a lot of people are abandoning ship or at least losing faith in the church itself. I personally don't like the Catholic church from what I've experienced, but again, I haven't had a whole lot of it. I was baptized catholic as a baby, went to church on certain holidays, etc, but other than that, no never been into 'organized religion'.

I, myself, consider to be somewhat agnostic. I'm spiritual, I do believe there's some kind of higher power *somewhere* but I believe we'll never know anything either way. I'd rather appreciate my life, be a good person while I'm here, continue to have good morals, and appreciate things like the nature and animals.

I know us at Chaz are good at discussing things like this, so I hope it remains civil. I'm just looking for opinions, facts, ideas, any good reads.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacksonsMom View Post
My step-dad tends to be REALLY annoying in his debates. He cannot debate me about religion PERIOD without getting way too defensive.

Tonight, with the Pope's resignation, the topic of child molesting and priests came up. All I was saying is that I don't understand how this keeps happening, and it's sickening, etc, etc. I don't feel like getting into the whole story again of what we argued about.

But basically.... he keeps saying that mostly they are homosexuals and know they can get away with it in that type of place, and take advantage of kids because they are more vulnerable or whatever. Of course he thinks it's absolutely horrible and disgusting, he's not denying that, but I kept getting SO frustrated with his constant comparison to being homosexual and being a effin' pedophile! The two just DO NOT compare, IMO. I mean, c'mon, there's tons of straight guys who rape little girls, and vice versa. And I FULLY realize that not ALL priests are bad.... just because SOME do it, does not mean they all do. Keep in mind, he has a personal connection because he grew up in Catholic schools with a very Catholic family (heh, he's one of 12 kids). He had a lot of great priests that he looks back with fond memories, etc. I GET that! However, let me not fail to mention that he is certainly no "saint" lol. This is a man who does not live like someone who is trying to be a practicing Catholic.

I was astounded by the number of priests that have been in trouble for this. But I admittedly, don't feel I have the right amount of information to be in a good debate, so I just kind of "whatever"ed it, knowing he's not going to change his mind anyway.

But I would like to inform myself on religion a bit more so he can stop using the "you can't argue something you know nothing about!" argument, even though he refuses to see the other side of things either. I've always considered myself fairly open minded about everything. I can listen to two sides and hear good in both (usually). It's just frustrating because he tells ME that I'm so "one-sided" and apparently, immediately when something about the church is spoken of, I don't look at the good, yet he is the same way and he doesn't look at the "other side" of the argument either! The first time a "bad" story about a gay person comes out he is the first to say "see?! this is why this isn't good..."

Does anyone have a lot of first hand knowledge about Catholicism, or a good read? I'm curious on the downfall, it seems a lot of people are abandoning ship or at least losing faith in the church itself. I personally don't like the Catholic church from what I've experienced, but again, I haven't had a whole lot of it. I was baptized catholic as a baby, went to church on certain holidays, etc, but other than that, no never been into 'organized religion'.

I, myself, consider to be somewhat agnostic. I'm spiritual, I do believe there's some kind of higher power *somewhere* but I believe we'll never know anything either way. I'd rather appreciate my life, be a good person while I'm here, continue to have good morals, and appreciate things like the nature and animals.

I know us at Chaz are good at discussing things like this, so I hope it remains civil. I'm just looking for opinions, facts, ideas, any good reads.
I feel exactly the same way.

It's hard to talk about religion with several 'religious' people. I've met a few who can explain why they believe, but for the most part, I get "faith".

As for learning more about the religion... Do you feel comfortable asking one of the church leaders to tell you about it? Some are very in your face, but some just simply want to educate others about THEIR religion and not push it on you. Depending on how interested you are, you might consider taking a class or something at the church. I know most, if not all, churches here have several different types of services and Wednesday night stuff.

It's nice of you to not rage at him.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:51 PM
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Not catholic here. I am a Christian but that is not the same as catholic. There is a poster on here who doesn't get on much anymore and for some reason i am totally drawing a blank on her name... I know it but can't think of it. She has a daughter Katie and just had another baby recently. Help me out here lol but she is a Catholic and I feel she could probably help with a lot of your questions

I get the same thing from my dad only opposite. He mocks my faith at every opportunity and it's a hard thing to get past

I GOT IT... M&ms mommy lol
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:00 PM
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Catholicism, just like any sects, has a wide variety of what it is. I grew up Catholic, went to Catholic schools for 13 years, my whole family is Catholic etc. HOwever, my family and area is very liberal and non fundamental Catholic. My views growing up, what I was taught, what I was shown, are VERY different than someone who is a traditional Catholic.
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:13 PM
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I'm Christian but not Catholic.

But I will say that most of my catholic friends get annoyed whenever someone brings up the molestation thing. It's not that they don't think it's horrible and something that needs to be take care of it's more that people think Catholic = child molesters.

Fact is any time there are jobs where adults are over kids you're going to have some sick people do things to the kids. It could be a priest, it could be a teacher, it could be a daycare worker but SO many see the word Catholic the only thing they ever associate with that word is 'child molesters'.

Whenever someone talks about a teacher I don't hear a ton of people jumping up and questioning why there have been so many teacher sleeping with students *It's happening a lot around here*

I know there are Christians who don't act like Christians and people talk about being mistreated by Christians during their life.

But being a Christian isn't easy either. There are a LOT of aggressive in your face atheists too. And speaking from a Christian *not Catholic* stand point I understand why someone would be defensive after being constantly told by popular media and peers that you are stupid for believing in a bedtime story and automatically being associated with sexual predators.

I'm not saying that is what you are doing. I'm just saying my Catholic friends are constantly put on the spot when they mention they are Catholic and I understand how annoyed they get.

I wouldn't say a TON of people are jumping ship. But I do think it is a lot harder to tell people that you are Christian when the mob mentality tells you it isn't right or cool.
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:20 PM
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Eh, the issue MOST have with Catholics is NOT that they think they are all child molesters etc BUT that they are still supporting (giving money to) a church that is STILL hiding and covering up child abuse and molestation.

I wish more Catholics were out there actually fighting their churches, their pastors, the vatican to get real, effective change.
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoko View Post
I'm Christian but not Catholic.

But I will say that most of my catholic friends get annoyed whenever someone brings up the molestation thing. It's not that they don't think it's horrible and something that needs to be take care of it's more that people think Catholic = child molesters.

Fact is any time there are jobs where adults are over kids you're going to have some sick people do things to the kids. It could be a priest, it could be a teacher, it could be a daycare worker but SO many see the word Catholic the only thing they ever associate with that word is 'child molesters'.

Whenever someone talks about a teacher I don't hear a ton of people jumping up and questioning why there have been so many teacher sleeping with students *It's happening a lot around here*

I know there are Christians who don't act like Christians and people talk about being mistreated by Christians during their life.

But being a Christian isn't easy either. There are a LOT of aggressive in your face atheists too. And speaking from a Christian *not Catholic* stand point I understand why someone would be defensive after being constantly told by popular media and peers that you are stupid for believing in a bedtime story and automatically being associated with sexual predators.

I'm not saying that is what you are doing. I'm just saying my Catholic friends are constantly put on the spot when they mention they are Catholic and I understand how annoyed they get.

I wouldn't say a TON of people are jumping ship. But I do think it is a lot harder to tell people that you are Christian when the mob mentality tells you it isn't right or cool.
This is a great post with excellent points

Thank you
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:25 PM
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Well, Catholic is Christian, they fit the definition (at least what I consider the definition of Christianity).

I have no evidence to back this up, but I suspect that many pedophile priests went into the priesthood because they had these feelings and they thought being a priest would somehow "cure" it and they would not have to be under pressure to marry then. Obviously it didn't work out that way. I'm not making excuses for the behavior, that's just my own theory.

I had two grandmas that were devout Catholics, and my grandpa (died when I was young) converted to the Catholic church and was a serious Catholic. He went to mass daily and even had a rosary hanging off his rear view and would say the rosary while driving (not a good plan, he got into a fender bender that way). I now having it hanging in my car-lol.

The thing is that the Church tends to be very traditional--the hierarchy is pretty centralized from the Pope down so there is not a whole lot of room for more progressive congregations. If you look at other denominations you will find much more variety--from conservative to progressive. Nothing to do with the sex scandal but could have something to do with people leaving the church (at least in my experience around this area)
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Greenmagick View Post
Eh, the issue MOST have with Catholics is NOT that they think they are all child molesters etc BUT that they are still supporting (giving money to) a church that is STILL hiding and covering up child abuse and molestation.

I wish more Catholics were out there actually fighting their churches, their pastors, the vatican to get real, effective change.
The problem is that they can totally disagree with what is going on within other churches but why should they not support their church?

I don't know if you go to church but most people consider that a safe place and place where there is a close knit community. It's not something that you say 'I disagree with what other people are doing at their churches. I'm going to quit going to my church to show them'.

Yes they all follow the same teachings but I don't think that world wide they are as close knit and connected as you think. If they're contributing to their community and youth in the area I don't think they need to punish their community to get the word across to another community they will never meet.

I mean yes they should speak out against it but most churches don't have much say when it comes to other churches a town over let alone different states or countries.
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoko View Post
I'm Christian but not Catholic.

But I will say that most of my catholic friends get annoyed whenever someone brings up the molestation thing. It's not that they don't think it's horrible and something that needs to be take care of it's more that people think Catholic = child molesters.

Fact is any time there are jobs where adults are over kids you're going to have some sick people do things to the kids. It could be a priest, it could be a teacher, it could be a daycare worker but SO many see the word Catholic the only thing they ever associate with that word is 'child molesters'.

Whenever someone talks about a teacher I don't hear a ton of people jumping up and questioning why there have been so many teacher sleeping with students *It's happening a lot around here*

I know there are Christians who don't act like Christians and people talk about being mistreated by Christians during their life.

But being a Christian isn't easy either. There are a LOT of aggressive in your face atheists too. And speaking from a Christian *not Catholic* stand point I understand why someone would be defensive after being constantly told by popular media and peers that you are stupid for believing in a bedtime story and automatically being associated with sexual predators.

I'm not saying that is what you are doing. I'm just saying my Catholic friends are constantly put on the spot when they mention they are Catholic and I understand how annoyed they get.

I wouldn't say a TON of people are jumping ship. But I do think it is a lot harder to tell people that you are Christian when the mob mentality tells you it isn't right or cool.
Good post!
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Sally--8 yr old pit bull mix
Jack--6 yr old Labrador
Sadie & Runt--12 yr old calico DSHs
Pickles & Kiwi--3 yr old white winged parakeets
Yoda--1 yr old Quaker parrot
Solo--12 yr old Senegal parrot
Sheena--Quarter Horse--3/24/86-6/23/11--Rest Easy Sweet Girl~




Labs do it in the lake.


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