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  #11  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:47 AM
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There are some uncommon occurrences of dwarf Aussies. If it's in Aussies I wouldn't be surprised that it would be in Borders since there is a common ancestor and still some crossing of the two breeds together even today.
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  #12  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
that's been what I've really been thinking. I know fluffies happen in corgis sometimes but LH is recessive, right? Wouldn't it be unlikely that that would line up just right? And it's not like this is one or two dogs, I've seen dozens of them that look just like purebred longhaired border collies until you look at their legs.
That's interesting that you've seen so many -- like I said I've never seen one. The one "short-legged" BC I've seen really looked mixed with something else.

I wouldn't doubt that many breeds carry such recessives but that they are so rare they almost never double-up, either because it's in the breed or because some cross (known or not) was made in the past. After all a first gen BC/Corgi is probably not going to be a dwarf.

I wonder if for some reason the genes are far more prevalent in your area or if someone(s) with those genes is doing a lot of close breedings? Do you know the parentage of any of these dwarf BCs?
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  #13  
Old 02-09-2013, 08:17 AM
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Nope, I don't know anything about them. It's really the frequency that's made me think over anything else.

I did do some looking online at 'borgis' and there is a breeder (I can't remember where they're located) that is breeding BC x corgis and the 2nd gens that are 3/4th BC and 1/4th corgi look like dwarfed BCs. So that's a possibility. I didn't really think of that instead of a straight up 50/50 cross.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:22 AM
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I did not know dwarfism happens in aussies, that's very interesting!
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  #15  
Old 02-09-2013, 09:22 AM
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LOL well corgis are also "suffering" from dwarfism, and being a corgiX can entail "suffering" from dwarfism. I can only speak for my breed, but they're generally hardy and long-lived, and have existed as dwarves for hundreds (likely thousands) years. I don't know that chondrodysplastic dwarves of other breeds "suffer" any more than corgis, really.
I know this, my post was worded badly...I meant the dogs I see, labeled as Corgi X, are purebreds or mixes of other breeds that aren't bred for dwarfism who happen to have dwarfism.

I do, however, notice that other breeds, where dwarfism is less common, often have "side effects" or traits associated with dwarfism that breeds like bassets, dachshunds, corgis do not typically have....an exaggerated domed skull, or underbite, spinal or joint problems from this. In most (general) cases, dwarfism does not come without some negative effects...why are breeds specifically bred for dwarfism not often seen with those effects?
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  #16  
Old 02-09-2013, 09:46 AM
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I think you're probably right about a lot of the "mixes" just being dwarfs.

I've seen dwarf GSDs, and while they're freaking ADORABLE, I think it carries with it some more severe health issues than true dwarfism.
Like I said in my other posts, there are two kinds of dwarfism in GSDs. Skeletal or Achondroplastic, the kind that all corgis have and a hormonal kind - Pituitary dwarfism. Dogs with Pituitary dwarfism rarely live more than a few years and there are other health issues associated with it. They appear normal initially but stop growing as puppies, retaining puppy proportions but not corgi-like proportions. They are usually from 10-30lbs, depending on how long they are able to utilize growth hormones. Their coats are fuzzy initially but many become bald as they age.

This is a 4 year old with Pituitary Dwarfism:


These three dogs are littermates, two have Pituitary Dwarfism:


An adult with the condition who's losing his hair:



GSDs with Achondroplastic Dwarfism:









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  #17  
Old 02-09-2013, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milos_mommy View Post
I know this, my post was worded badly...I meant the dogs I see, labeled as Corgi X, are purebreds or mixes of other breeds that aren't bred for dwarfism who happen to have dwarfism.

I do, however, notice that other breeds, where dwarfism is less common, often have "side effects" or traits associated with dwarfism that breeds like bassets, dachshunds, corgis do not typically have....an exaggerated domed skull, or underbite, spinal or joint problems from this. In most (general) cases, dwarfism does not come without some negative effects...why are breeds specifically bred for dwarfism not often seen with those effects?
There are issues associated with dwarfism in the dwarf breeds. I have not noticed skull deformities as being normal with dwarfism in dogs though. usually dwarfism (the skeletal kind) is associated with normal heads and torsos but short limbs. There is a higher risk for joint issues and back problems for dogs with dwarfism, both ones purposely bred for and ones not. Also just how dwarf-y dwarf dogs are can vary in both populations as well. Although, as Emily mentioned modern Corgi breeders tend to try to select for more exaggerated dwarf features. In breeds that aren't generally dwarf dogs, you see quite a range.

All that said, Corgis are generally healthy and long lived breeds. Ziggy is almost 10 years old and physically more sound than a lot of normally proportioned dogs at his age. It isn't uncommon to hear of Corgis living into their mid or upper teens.

Some more non-dwarf breed dwarf dogs:

Bull Terrier


Labs




Dobe


Beagles




Toller


Great Pyrs





Malamutes
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  #18  
Old 02-09-2013, 10:14 AM
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I would like the dwarf Great Pyr, thanks.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:11 AM
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I would like the dwarf Great Pyr, thanks.
I was thinking the same thing about the Doberman
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  #20  
Old 02-09-2013, 11:22 AM
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I would like the dwarf Great Pyr, thanks.
OMG, me too.
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