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  #71  
Old 02-01-2013, 11:34 PM
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I am totally for docking for a purpose. Working Weims, gsp's, and similar breeds, I can definitely see why it's important. They tear themselves UP in the field, the tail would probably be a major hindrance... I think.

Docking and cropping for looks? Meh. I think the cropped look on certain breeds makes them look so much more regal/intimidating/etc. but after dealing with fleetwood's ears (he came pre-cropped) was a PITA, and it looked very painful for him. Seems unnecessary, almost cruel to me. I'm on the fence about having my next puppy cropped, but since it will be from the same breeder, it will probably already be done.
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  #72  
Old 02-01-2013, 11:53 PM
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Personal choice of the puppy's/dog's owner.
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  #73  
Old 02-02-2013, 02:03 AM
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I don't own a cropped and docked breed, but I also don't see a problem with it. People who show dogs make decisions to help their dogs in the show ring all the time, and some of them are shocking to non-show people. Same can be said of working- I honestly was sort of freaked out when I saw a working instructor smacking a BC with a stock stick when he was being too pushy. Now that I'm more involved with herding, I get it- and it doesn't bother me.

For example, when I show my dogs, I blow dry them to make them look fluffier. I stretch them out to give the illusion of more rear angulation (Especially Sadie, who doesn't have a ton of rear angles). I give them supplements to help grow coat. When I went to Eukanuba with Sadie I even chalked her to make her more white- we were up against the top dogs in the US and she got pulled for the final cut. I can't really tell you if that stuff works or not, but its what we have to do to be competitive. Do I think its ridiculous? Of course. LOL. It is all ridiculous.

I don't think you all realize how hurtful it is to hear things like "it is just so awful for the dogs". Everyone I know who has cropped and docked their dogs are incredibly in love with their dogs and their breed... no less than you and I. Their dogs play, and work, and live a great life.

Just, keep in mind that there is a way to disagree with something without demonizing someone who made that choice themselves.
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  #74  
Old 02-02-2013, 02:08 AM
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The whole thing about dewclaws... I don't like them, but I plan on leaving them on Fiona's puppies- because so many of them are going to performance/SAR homes, and I think they can be used. I am SO pissed about the vet who did Wesley's dewclaws.. he had front and rear dews and the vet did a HORRIBLE job taking them off. He has cowlicks on his rear legs where the dewclaws were, and it is really hard to make that look normal. I pretty much have to trim all the hair down and it still looks completely stupid. I can also feel where they were. I still wouldn't have left them, because the rear dews are so often loose in this breed- but seriously if you are getting dews removed FIND. A. GOOD. VET. Otherwise, your puppy buyers will be plagued with stupid looking hair sticking out of their puppy's legs.
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  #75  
Old 02-02-2013, 02:37 AM
Michiyo-Fir Michiyo-Fir is offline
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Just adding that in terms of dew claws, I actually strongly prefer them removed. Nia doesn't have them, not by my choice as a lot of Papillon breeders remove them but our other 2 have them. They catch on shirts, the nail grows weirdly, is difficult to clip, etc. Plus I prefer the look without.

That being said, I do understand that if they are properly attached, they do serve some kind of function that can help with gripping or even turning corners sometimes and for that reason I would probably allow all my future puppies to keep them if the breeder doesn't remove them. Plus there is research that says dewclaw removal causes more injuries I believe....

But aesthetically and in terms of convenience, I really rather not have them.

Also on Nia, I'm not sure if it's because of the hair or what, I can't find the part where it was, I can't feel the part it used to be attached to or see any baldness, cow licks, weird hair....also she doesn't have a scar from her spay either...maybe she just heals incredibly well. I looked for a long time and couldn't find either.
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  #76  
Old 02-02-2013, 06:15 AM
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Sako's dewclaws are removed, I prefer them that way, to be honest. He certainly has NO problem running and doing extremely sharp turns on the lure coursing field..





Wilson & Piper have dewclaws and I've never noticed a difference between them & Sako as far as them being able to do things he can't. He holds his bones the same exact way they do, etc.
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  #77  
Old 02-02-2013, 06:35 AM
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I'm not a fan.

I don't think it should be outlawed and I don't demonize those that have it done (properly by a vet), I just don't care for the practice. There are dogs like dobes that I do prefer the look on, but for the most part I like the natural look. I really don't like the short crops like the ones on the mastiffy breeds, and I strongly prefer bully breeds natural. Actually, if we were looking into an Amstaff or APBT breeder, and that breeder insisted that I must have my pup cropped, that would be a deal breaker for me.

With dewclaws I prefer them left on unless they are improperly attached-mine use their dewclaws a lot. With debarking I think it should be a last resort. If it is required to keep a dog out of the shelter, then it is what it is and better the dog be debarked than homeless.
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  #78  
Old 02-02-2013, 06:38 AM
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I am personally okay with all of these procedures, as long as they are done responsibly and correctly. In the end, you never see dogs affected badly by these procedures, do you?

Personally, I will never crop a dog, although I could see myself owning a docked dog in the future. I have personally been around both, and it seems as though the dogs were unaffected, so no harm done.
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  #79  
Old 02-02-2013, 06:49 AM
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I feel about docking, cropping, neutering, dew claw removal, debarking, all the same. I don't particularly like any of them but I will make the decision sometimes to do them and I wont villainize anyone else for doing them. If I neuter a male it is done PURELY for my own convenience (being able to leave them out around a bitch in heat, not having to do testicular exams, ect), just like if I have a docked dog it is also purely for my own convenience (Meeting the breed standard, not having to deal with constantly cutting burrs out of the tail, not stepping on the tail, ect)

I will be docking the long tailed puppies in my litter, however there will most likely also be natural bob tailed puppies in my litter and if their tails are short enough they will be left natural. I haven't decided yet if I will remove dewclaws, my breed standard makes their removal optional. I think if I have a lot of performance homes lined up for the pups I will leave the dews on, If I have mostly pet homes I will remove them.
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  #80  
Old 02-02-2013, 08:35 AM
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I don't know why someone would crop a lab but we have fosterd one that had part of an ear removed because of a giant ear hematoma. Also had dogs where vets tried to just remove the tips when there was an injury that was horrible and I did say take the whole thing I don't want to be back in two day because it happens all the time.

And I forgot my corgi was a natural bob tail. Or so we think becaus there is nothing there and that's how a breeder told us the naturals are.
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