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  #41  
Old 02-01-2013, 03:14 PM
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Katem Katem is offline
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I'm okay with both. I actually really like that Bear was docked. I can't even begin to think of the number of times I would've stepped on his tail if he still had one. And it gives Pig one less thing to latch onto

When I eventually get a Doberman, (s)he will be cropped/docked. As long as the vet is good (not just that they will crop, but that they actually know what they're doing) and you are willing to put in all of the effort that caring for the ears requires, no one should chastise you for making a decision about your dog. That said, I would much rather see a natural ear than a terrible crop or a flopped crop. I also wouldn't call a natural eared/tailed dog ugly/goofy looking or claim that they are any less of a *insert traditionally cropped/docked breed here*. It's all about personal preference really, so why should anyone care if someone else likes something different than they do? Don't like the look of a cropped/docked dog? Then don't have your dog cropped/docked, simple as that.
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  #42  
Old 02-01-2013, 03:20 PM
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Does anyone know how cropping ears came to be? I understand docking to a point, but not cropping for the breeds with longer crops (dobes, boxers, etc). Shorter crops, like dogos, I understand.
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  #43  
Old 02-01-2013, 03:25 PM
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I pretty much feel docking, cropping, debarking, altering and dewclaws should be left to personal choice of the owner/breeder.

In looking at PyrSheps (a traditionally docked/cropped breed) I had a string preference for an all natural puppy. But I also had a preference for a blue merle LOL I won't turn down the right puppy based on cosmetic preferences, unless I'm looking for a dog to show and the cosmetic issue is a dealbreaker. In PyrSheps, docked/cropped/natural/bobtail are all acceptable in the breed ring and I wasn't really dead set on having a ShowShep anyway. I wanted a CrazyShep most of all

Now for me, I couldn't see myself taking a puppy to be cropped. I like how it looks on some breeds but I would be sick with worry over putting my puppy through an elective surgery. Also, I don't know once I see their ears I'd feel bad having them cut off. Savvy's ears are so expressive! And besides, don't really like to put my dogs under for anything if it isn't necessary though.

But that's my personal preference and I don't expect everyone to feel the same way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milos_mommy View Post
To me...docking and cropping are in a far, far, far different boat than devocalization.Cropping and docking are not going to drastically change most dogs day-to-day lives. If they're a working dog, yes maybe it will be safer...and a docked tail can have SOME effect on how a dog communications, but in general, it's not going to make any major differences.

Devocalization is drastically altering a dog's ability to communicate and express themselves, with other dogs and people. Aside from the fact that any debarking I've ever seen was done on an older puppy or dog (except for mass puppy mill debarkings). Imagine being stuck somewhere, separated from your family, or confronted by a big scary dog, and being unable to vocally defend yourself or ask for help. That's how I see debarking. It's the difference between piercing your child's ears without their permission, and severing their vocal cords without permission.
Have ever been around debarked dogs?
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  #44  
Old 02-01-2013, 03:28 PM
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Dew claws are a pain in the arse sometimes. Zander's curl in on themselves. But he does use them and they are firmly attached. And as long as the dews are firmly attached, they are probably staying on any future dogs. If they aren't, then I'll probably ask breeder or whoever to remove them.

I don't care of tails are docked or ears are cropped. As long as they were cleanly done and the dog has no issue with them. But to be honest, I've seen dogs in more pain and with more recovery with a spay or a neuter.

I don't necessarily agree with it in all cases. If you wanted a breed with a bob tail or upright ears...why didn't you breed that in way back when? That much I don't understand. I imagine in my own head someone, after 10 or so years, went, "Oops. Darn it, I FORGOT THE UPRIGHT EARS." So they just cropped instead. I doubt it actually happened that way, I'm just sitting here and amusing myself.

But I don't have a problem with it. Do what you like.
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  #45  
Old 02-01-2013, 03:29 PM
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Unfortunately it is traditional to do dewclaws on working sled dogs in part to make bootie-ing them easier, so that was done before it was still thought that Squash's litter were all Alaskan x Alaskan and would likely be working... long before I even had any glimmer of an idea I might take him, in any case. It would be my preference to not have them done, but if I get Alaskans in the future I will run into the same problem that people who get cropped/docked breeds from show breeders do - how do they know which puppy not to do the dews on at a few days old? It doesn't weird me out too much except that every single time I cut his nails I still reach for them and then go "oh yea, duh."

As far as debarking, dewclaw... if due to neighbor complaints/apartment rules, etc. it's a choice between the dog or the vocal cords, I'll take the dog. Similarly, if it's the cat or the claws, I'll take the cat.
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  #46  
Old 02-01-2013, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julee View Post
Does anyone know how cropping ears came to be? I understand docking to a point, but not cropping for the breeds with longer crops (dobes, boxers, etc). Shorter crops, like dogos, I understand.
The modern long show crops were developed for the show ring over time. Getting them just right is a bit of an art form. And getting them to stand can take some real dedication. Most functional crops were much more simple and much shorter. They likely stood without much post care at allYou can see this in historic pictures:

Dobes:





Danes:




Boxers:





PyrSheps are cropped straight across:

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  #47  
Old 02-01-2013, 03:40 PM
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In danes, their ears were traditionally cropped to prevent the tusks of boars ripping into them. However, it was a short crop at that point. Over time, the crop lengthened to what it is now, to help show off the head of the dog. Danes are meant to have an elegant, chiseled head, and the crop helps to bring the ear up and off the face.

I had my pet dane left natural and had my show dane cropped. I don't see a point in cropping a dog that isn't going into the show ring. I however, don't disagree with cropping a dog that will be shown as presently, it is difficult to finish a dane with natural ears.
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  #48  
Old 02-01-2013, 04:49 PM
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It's my personal preference for my dogs to have all their parts, and it's my personal preference to own breeds that are commonly left that way.

I can admire a good crop job and just feel meh about most docking. Lack of front dewclaws I find weird, honestly. My dogs' dews are all well formed and they use them all the time to grip stuff. I've seen my dogs leave skid marks and tracks that make it obvious they use their dews to turn.

In certain breeds, I could see myself buying a puppy already cropped, but I could never drop a puppy off at the vet's to be cropped. I'd just be too nervous and I'm sure I'd be wondering the whole time if it was "worth it". It seems easier if the pup has already been through it and is healthy and happy!

Honestly, I view it like surgical de-sexing.... it's not necessary, and the view benefits it typical offers tend to be secondary to real reasons behind it, like visual preference or convenience. That said, I wouldn't want to see either practice banned and believe it should be a choice left up to the owner.
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  #49  
Old 02-01-2013, 05:00 PM
JessLough JessLough is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily View Post
It's my personal preference for my dogs to have all their parts,

Honestly, I view it like surgical de-sexing.... it's not necessary, and the view benefits it typical offers tend to be secondary to real reasons behind it, like visual preference or convenience. That said, I wouldn't want to see either practice banned and believe it should be a choice left up to the owner.
This, basically.

My question for this post? How many ears do dogs have? LOL
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  #50  
Old 02-01-2013, 05:12 PM
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As I'm reading this I'm starting to wonder if my dogs are freaks, because neither of them had any issue with their spay and neuter. Sally in particular was a holy terror because we were trying to keep her quiet while she recovered and she would have none of it.

Jack has gotten a few ear infections and we joke that we are going to get him a "fighting" crop so that his ears can get more ventilation....
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