What are your views on cropping and docking?

[CharlieDog]

Other than having to clip them - I'm curious what the issue with dew claws is. I've heard people say they get caught on things. For those who have dogs with them, is that frequent for you?

Out of all our dogs, who all have their dewclaws, only Ozzy injures his frequent enough to consider removal. He uses them, quite a lot, but he also hurts them quite a lot as well. It got to be bad enough once that even wearing skidboots while outside he was still hurting himself.

We strongly considered having them removed when he was under for his neuter. His dews are strong, but they're not as tight as they could be, I guess? Indys and Enzos dew claws are much harder to separate from the paw to clip, whereas Ozzys just flip out, so I think that's a major reason why he has problems with his.

We decided against having them removed because they are strongly attached, they're just not tight against the leg, and he does use them quite frequently. I've even seen him use them to get something out of his eye before.

They can all flex their dewclaws, and all of them use them when chewing. I do like the look of the leg/foot without them, but I wouldn't want to deprive someone of their thumbs, so as long as it's my choice and it isn't causing huge issues, I will leave them on the dog.

I know some dogs are born without them, or born with them not firmly attached and floppy, and I think in that case the benefit is negligible, and I would elect to have non functional dews removed.

I do NOT like rear dews, and have seen MANY MANY more get torn off or injured than front dews. I would have those removed asap.

[Shai]

Originally Posted by CharlieDog

I know some dogs are born without them, or born with them not firmly attached and floppy, and I think in that case the benefit is negligible, and I would elect to have non functional dews removed.

Any idea what breeds? I've never heard a first-hand account of pups born completely without front dewclaws so am curious as to whether this really happens and to whom.

[JustaLilBitaLuck]

Originally Posted by PWCorgi

This about debarking.

If it came down to it, I would have Frodo debarked as a last ditch effort before putting him to sleep. And for a while I honestly thought that was what it might come to when he was barking in our apartment so much.

Do I think it should be done willy nilly? No, but I think it's better than death!

This. I think if debarking is done as a last resort after other options (management, training) have been exhausted, then that's fine. I have a problem with people going "Oh, my dog barks a lot. This is annoying. Time for a debark!" instead of actually working with it.

[~WelshStump~]

Originally Posted by Julee

Does anyone know how cropping ears came to be? I understand docking to a point, but not cropping for the breeds with longer crops (dobes, boxers, etc). Shorter crops, like dogos, I understand.

Well, for Beaucerons I don't really know how much of what is true, like with most of these "traditions" nowadays. One account says it was because they were developed from Boar hunters which traditionally have their ears cropped short for prevention. However, they're so closely related to the Briard, the Briard is also cropped what's their excuse? Well, the second account is that they were a prevention during wolf encounters. All in all, who knows, no one really wrote down at the time "why" for most breeds. I just know that I prefer it, and some people don't and I respect their choice more so if they give me the same respect.

Originally Posted by Aleron

PyrSheps are cropped straight across:

Wait, seriously? lol, they usually have so much hair I have a hard time telling the cropped from the uncropped dogs, never knew! And well, because of that to tell you the truth I don't really care either way with Pyr Sheps, I do like the nubby butts though.

Originally Posted by JessLough

This, basically.

My question for this post? How many ears do dogs have? LOL

You win!

Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel

This month alone I have had three friends dogs die during a spay. It's frustrating that it is often sold as a harm free alternative to cancer. Life is a gamble either way.

This cute little blonde doodle died yesterday, her owner is a widower with a military son overseas and this dog was her best friend.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...12049292_n.jpg
I do support altering by choice (just like the other surgeries listed), and encourage it for those who realize their lack of desire or inability to own intact dogs responsibly, but today is a bad day for me to feel prospeuter, rational or not.

I love seeing your pictures of all the dogs, that's really upsetting to hear!

Originally Posted by LostAndConfused

I'm of the live and let live opinion.

but lots of people want to know why I have such a funny dock on my Aussie / Border Collie

Looks like a common bobby to me , they don't usually take the answer "born that way"?

Originally Posted by Tazwell

I am totally for docking for a purpose. Working Weims, gsp's, and similar breeds, I can definitely see why it's important. They tear themselves UP in the field, the tail would probably be a major hindrance... I think.

Docking and cropping for looks? Meh. I think the cropped look on certain breeds makes them look so much more regal/intimidating/etc. but after dealing with fleetwood's ears (he came pre-cropped) was a PITA, and it looked very painful for him. Seems unnecessary, almost cruel to me. I'm on the fence about having my next puppy cropped, but since it will be from the same breeder, it will probably already be done.

You sure? Because our friends requested their two have a shorter crop and she did it (although I don't really like the males, they ended up a little too short), since you usually know by crop time who's yours she should be able to leave them uncropped at request.

Originally Posted by joce

And I forgot my corgi was a natural bob tail. Or so we think becaus there is nothing there and that's how a breeder told us the naturals are.

Not true, more often than not bobbies are longer than the usual dock, which most breeder due to the standard "As short as possible without indent" take it all off to where you don't see or feel any of it as it's been cut flush with the buttock. Jinj has a little of his, not enough you see it as is, but when he's excited a little lump lifts and "wags", I'm so torn! This is one that does rip me apart because I do LOVE nubby butt! But the research is right, longer tails make for more sociable dogs. Again, back to the bobbies, where they are usually longer they are then more practical, to bad it's an incomplete lethal so it'll never penetrate the population.

Originally Posted by Laurelin

All of our papillons except Nard have dewclaws. I know Summer's breeder has started removing them with Nard's litter but all her dogs prior to that litter weren't done. Mia's breeder does not remove them. You can't even see a papillon's dewclaws. My dogs have such hair legs and the dews are really tight. They use them all the time. They're easy to keep down if you trim your dog's nails. Beau has ripped his once but he's also ripped out some other nails too. He's just kind of crazy.

I do always forget that Nard has no dews when I am doing all their nails. I always search for it for a while before realizing his are missing.

Oh my gosh! I had to go look at your photo's again just to see, lol I honestly never noticed them before.

( My question is "What color is healthy grass?", sorry just had to share!)

[noludoru]

Originally Posted by Julee

For those who are okay with it, do you feel that it's okay for a non-traditional breed to get it done? Like, say, a lab?

I am okay with all elective procedures in most situationions.

Not all - but most. Debarking your dog for shits and giggles seems unnecessary to me.

I would be perfectly okay with a cropped or docked dog of a non-traditional breed, as long as it was done right. I've always thought a standard poodle would look cool with a show crop. Live and let live.

As to the dewclaws debate? I am strongly for removing them, and after the nightmares I have had with Middie's dewclaws I will remove them from any dog I neuter in the future. I hate the look of them anyway, but the ridiculous amount of bloody injuries we've seen had in tthe past is not something I want to repeat.

[sillysally]

My dogs have had a few injuries to their regular claws, but never their dew claws.

[JessLough]

Originally Posted by milos_mommy

I've never heard anyone want to declaw their cats because it's preventative of an injury to the cat.

Well... no.... only to prevent the cat being euthanized or dumped at a shelter. Also, majority of the dogs I see that have had dewclaws removed have been when older, for asthetics rather than to prevent injury.

[CharlieDog]

Originally Posted by Shai

Any idea what breeds? I've never heard a first-hand account of pups born completely without front dewclaws so am curious as to whether this really happens and to whom.

I don't know about breeds, but I've seen a few mutts in daycare that didn't have them, and I was, at the time, considering removing Ozzys, so I was looking at dewclaws a lot lol, but it appeared to me that either the dog had had an accident at an extremely young age and ripped them off, or they were removed by someone, though why you would do that to a litter of mutts is beyond me. It was also strange because one dog came in with a supposed sibling who had their dews, and she didn't. Those two dogs may not have been siblings, they both were cur mixes it looked like, similar enough that they COULD have been related, and were around the same age, but cur like enough that they may just have taken up together and they were found wandering in Atlanta. The one without the dews was a generic brown dog cur mix. The other looked slightly more pit bull-ish, but was merled like a 'houla

There were a few dogs, like, two that I can recall only had one front dew claw, one of the dogs had his on the left, but not the right. The left was extremely weird looking. The nail grew funny, hard to describe, but it didn't look like a regular dog nail, and the dew itself was definitely not attached. There wasn't one on the other foot.

The other dog had a normal dew, also on the left, and there was nothing on the right either. I couldn't find a scar to suggest it had been ripped off or removed (why remove one and not the other though?) So it's possible they were born with them, but lost them at some point or another.

Of those two, the first dog was a Georgia Brown Dog. Very standard looking mutt. Couldn't even begin to tell you what breed, aside from some sort of GSD/Lab/Chow/Pit thing

The second was another Georgia special, but she was black and white, with a longer coat. Lab/BC/Sheppie something or other.

So, I don't know. I never thought to ask their parents if they knew more to their stories than I'd been told, or if they'd had an accident or something.

[Laurelin]

Originally Posted by ~WelshStump~

Wait, seriously? lol, they usually have so much hair I have a hard time telling the cropped from the uncropped dogs, never knew! And well, because of that to tell you the truth I don't really care either way with Pyr Sheps, I do like the nubby butts though.

Yup! They're traditionally cropped and docked although it's pretty easy to find breeders that don't, or at least the ears. There seems to be a lot more choice available in that breed versus some others I've looked into.

Oh my gosh! I had to go look at your photo's again just to see, lol I honestly never noticed them before.

Yeah, aesthetically I can't tell a difference between Nard (no dewclaws) and the other 4 (with dewclaws). I looked and looked and can't find a picture you can see them on.

ETA: Ok, here you go:


DSC_1456 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

You can see them when she's got wet feet and is being a ninja.

[CatStina]

Originally Posted by JessLough

I mean, the main reason I hear against (and why I'm against) declawing cats is because of the amputation. Seems kind of mute if you're fine with chopping off dewclaws.

Declawing cats is a LOT worse than removing the dewclaw on dogs. I personally knew three cats who were declawed.One was my grandmother's and two were a friend's. When cats are declawed their first knuckle is chopped off. Think about cats for a second. They use a litter box. That means they have to dig in a litter box with their painful recently maimed paws. A lot of cats (I've personally known two) stop using the litter box and start having accidents elsewhere in the house after they're declawed. Their paws also often get infected (I personally knew one who had this happen) because of using the litter box after surgery. Cats also walk on their toes and pretty much have to "relearn" to walk on those bloody painful nubs after the surgery. After being declawed many will became biters. All three cats I knew who were declawed became biters. One of them was PTS, the other dumped at the shelter. Whose fault was it? 1000000000% the fault of the moron owners who thought their furniture was more important than the well being of their cats. Declawing is so much worse than cutting off dewclaws, chopping off ears and tails and, yes, even devocalization. In my experience, it does WAY more harm than good. Declawing is cruelty.