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  #101  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:59 AM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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Originally Posted by CharlieDog View Post
Right? I WAS reading about starch adaptations, then raw feed/grain feeding, then theories vs laws, including something about the laws of thermodynamics, then evolution got dragged into, then dogs and how they are/not wolves, then how a bird is a dinosaur but not.

Weird.
I should have kept up with this thread. Now I'm just lost

Anyone who questions whether birds are dinosaurs clearly has never seen a Canada goose gosling in their ugly stage I also like telling my nephew that back in my day, birds weren't reptiles. We had reptillia and aves and no sauropsida
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  #102  
Old 01-27-2013, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Saeleofu View Post
I should have kept up with this thread. Now I'm just lost

Anyone who questions whether birds are dinosaurs clearly has never seen a Canada goose gosling in their ugly stage I also like telling my nephew that back in my day, birds weren't reptiles. We had reptillia and aves and no sauropsida
When my duckling Mahonri was 9 weeks old he chased down a mouse, caught it, and swallowed it whole. It made me really glad ducks are not 9 feet tall.

The classification system has been rearranged so many times in the past 25 years, unless there's DNA behind it I reserve my right to be skeptical.
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  #103  
Old 01-27-2013, 03:38 AM
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Sordes pilosus for one, though there are a lot of pterosaurs described as having "hairlike" and "furlike" coverings, with stress placed on it not being feathers. There are dinosaurs with hairlike feathers, but when I look them up sometimes they describe it as being "feather-like", so not true feathers there in every case either.
From what I understand pterosaurs are not considered to be true dinosaurs though they did live at the same time, "Pterosaurs lived among the dinosaurs and became extinct about the same time, but they were not dinosaurs; they were flying reptiles." Source: http://www.livescience.com/24071-pte...dinosaurs.html


And no, I have no idea what this has to do with dogs' ability to digest starches
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  #104  
Old 01-27-2013, 04:26 AM
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From what I understand pterosaurs are not considered to be true dinosaurs though they did live at the same time, "Pterosaurs lived among the dinosaurs and became extinct about the same time, but they were not dinosaurs; they were flying reptiles." Source: http://www.livescience.com/24071-pte...dinosaurs.html
That's what I thought too, but then I consulted the most recent phylogenic chart and it had them listed under dinosauria? There seems to be wild variations in cladograms when you get that far back in lineage, and considering how badly we've mucked it up with living species (and proven with DNA testing why assumptions based on phenotype don't work) I'm gonna sit it out until they find DNA for those too. Or figure out some way to turn on and off some combination of genes that makes the ancestral forms of organisms magically manifest. lol.

Oooooh, then we could reverse engineer whales into ambulocetus and they could roam the countryside, filtering clouds of midge flies from the air.

Or even better, we could reverse modern, inferior dogs into their superior extinct form which is the feline wolf. A gentile companion which shares its lineage with the lion.

ETA: Everything I read about pterosaurs having fur said that it suggested they were warm blooded, which means they weren't technically reptiles. *bangs head against wall*

Bedtime.
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  #105  
Old 01-27-2013, 10:13 AM
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Red.Apricot Red.Apricot is offline
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Mitochondrial DNA is the key here. Again, dogs and wolves share a common ancestor. They are NOT the same thing, and dogs did NOT evolve from wolves. Mitochondrial Wolfdog evolved into Dog and Wolf separately.

(Mark Derr seems to hate mtDNA because it makes what he has argued for so long just... wrong. He likes to give interviews and mention the "flaws" of mtDNA, but never really expands on why he thinks the flaws from the initial beliefs on mtDNA changes anything as far as tracing back to a common ancestor goes. I guess because people initially thought mtDNA was passed on only through the mother and that has turned out to be false that just makes it all entirely bunk? Meh.)
Do you have a link about mtDNA being passed by the father?
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  #106  
Old 01-27-2013, 10:19 AM
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Dekka Dekka is offline
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Do you have a link about mtDNA being passed by the father?
Yes, I would like an example of mtDNA being passed on by males in mammals.

And many top scientists will argue that dogs ARE wolves. Not just descended from them. I had an argument with my supervisor as I said they are different species (based on behaviour) and he (who has done a lot of work on wolves) says they are the same. It depends on what species model is used.

Deciding on what is a species is not cut and dry.
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  #107  
Old 01-27-2013, 01:55 PM
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Raegan Raegan is offline
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Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
Mitochondrial DNA is the key here. Again, dogs and wolves share a common ancestor. They are NOT the same thing, and dogs did NOT evolve from wolves. Mitochondrial Wolfdog evolved into Dog and Wolf separately.

(Mark Derr seems to hate mtDNA because it makes what he has argued for so long just... wrong. He likes to give interviews and mention the "flaws" of mtDNA, but never really expands on why he thinks the flaws from the initial beliefs on mtDNA changes anything as far as tracing back to a common ancestor goes. I guess because people initially thought mtDNA was passed on only through the mother and that has turned out to be false that just makes it all entirely bunk? Meh.)
That's because mDNA alone wildly skews the results.

http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress....chondrial-dna/
http://retrieverman.net/2012/04/20/i...omment-page-1/

And birds are dinosaurs is always relevent, because it's the best science fact ever.

You can never outgrow your ancestry. Everything thing your ancestors were, you still are. So yes, you are an ape (and apes are monkeys). All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romy
That's what I thought too, but then I consulted the most recent phylogenic chart and it had them [Pterosaurs] listed under dinosauria?
My understanding is Pterosaurs are dinosaurs, but not the dinosaurs that became birds (theropods). Which is fascinating to me because look at all the different times and ways flight has evoloved! http://www.pterosaur.net/origins.php seems to say "common ancestor with dinosaurs" (which I find to be kind of meaningless, everything has a common ancestor with everything else).

I have no idea what to do with the word "reptile." The last I heard it was polyphylogenic and wasn't really being used anymore. But I've still seen it used and have never been able to figure out what it meant. I just really don't know/understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka
And many top scientists will argue that dogs ARE wolves. Not just descended from them. I had an argument with my supervisor as I said they are different species (based on behaviour) and he (who has done a lot of work on wolves) says they are the same. It depends on what species model is used.

Deciding on what is a species is not cut and dry.
In addition, there are multiple accounts of wolves acting like dogs, and dogs acting like wolves.

(Warning, some of those links have graphic descriptions of hunting)
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  #108  
Old 01-27-2013, 02:37 PM
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Solo the Senegal says he is totally related to dinosaurs-he especially claims the velociraptor....
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  #109  
Old 01-27-2013, 05:13 PM
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Oko Oko is offline
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Originally Posted by Romy View Post
When my duckling Mahonri was 9 weeks old he chased down a mouse, caught it, and swallowed it whole. It made me really glad ducks are not 9 feet tall. .
Read that as 'moose', not 'mouse'
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  #110  
Old 01-27-2013, 05:31 PM
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sillysally sillysally is offline
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Read that as 'moose', not 'mouse'
That would be a scary effing duck-lol!

I know that chickens will hunt and eat mice and small snakes.
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~Christina--Mom to:
Sally--8 yr old pit bull mix
Jack--6 yr old Labrador
Sadie & Runt--12 yr old calico DSHs
Pickles & Kiwi--3 yr old white winged parakeets
Yoda--1 yr old Quaker parrot
Solo--12 yr old Senegal parrot
Sheena--Quarter Horse--3/24/86-6/23/11--Rest Easy Sweet Girl~




Labs do it in the lake.


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