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  #31  
Old 01-22-2013, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by CatStina View Post
You probably mean service dogs, therapy dogs are well behaved pet dogs that visit patients in hospitals, nursing homes, etc. You do not need a prescription for a therapy dog and therapy dogs have no public access rights.
Yes. Long day! Lol!

In my head I'm thinking therapy for them.
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  #32  
Old 01-22-2013, 06:53 PM
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Well this is all very interesting.

Now a few new questions:

This one is geared towards Fran, but obviously anyone can answer.
What do you do if the dog you are hoping becomes an SD, fails? I assume you don't want to get 'rid' of the dog, but I would imagine with all the money and time it takes to train this dog, failing would be pretty hard. Is it common for dogs to 'fail'?

Also, if you 'get' an SD, but do not NEED an SD, is it still legal to take the dog places? Or if the dog is trained for a certain disability, such as responding to a person who is in a wheelchair, and is now owned by someone who has a disability such as.... Austism. What should happen to the dog in that situation? Is it re-trained or should the new owner focus on getting an SD that is better suited to his/her needs?

Ideally SDs behaved excellently and do not bark/bite/misbehave. However, if someone/thing is bit by an SD, is it treated like a normal dog bite?

What if you are in an area with your SD and someone is uncomfortable with dogs? Like a phobia or allergic or something serious? Or the awful realization that....some people don't like dogs! (Wish that worked with some children. Yikes.)

It just seems like it would be so difficult to create many regulations. Is there more being done to verify actual SDs? Some of the reasons I've heard for people having an SD is a bit ridiculous. Everyone has issues and dogs, especially YOUR dog is bound to make you feel better. I KNOW most SDs are not just "Oh you make me happy" dogs. But it is a bit of 'some bad apples ruin the whole bunch'.
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  #33  
Old 01-22-2013, 07:00 PM
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AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
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Originally Posted by Fran101 View Post
It's so weird, since having him.. I never have seizures around him. According to my mother "IT'S A MAGIC PUPPY!!" so we shall see. I don't have much hope he will alert, my seizures come on very quickly according to my scans, but hey, who knows!
Well, he is named Merlin...

So, someone once asked if my dog alerted for Denis (type1diabetic), before we had the malinois. It went like this.
Denis: no.
Me: well Arnold gets up with you in the night-
Denis: um... He hears the plastic bags of food opening. No love from that dog.

Sigh. Fail.
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  #34  
Old 01-22-2013, 07:05 PM
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What is the benefit of having a dog 'officially' an ESA? They have no access rights. The big thing I've seen is housing, which wouldn't affect most people.

Since ESAs don't do any specific tasks to mitigate a disability, how do you get an ESA? Do you just need a diagnosis?

I'm not looking at getting an ESA, but I just don't really understand.
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  #35  
Old 01-22-2013, 07:09 PM
CatStina CatStina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airn View Post
What do you do if the dog you are hoping becomes an SD, fails?
It's called "washing out" and it does happen. I don't know how often, someone else may know the answer. If a dog washes out you either keep said dog as a pet and start over with a new candidate or rehome said dog to a pet home and start over with a new dog.

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Originally Posted by Airn View Post
Also, if you 'get' an SD, but do not NEED an SD, is it still legal to take the dog places?
No. You have to have a disability in order to have an SD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airn View Post
Ideally SDs behaved excellently and do not bark/bite/misbehave. However, if someone/thing is bit by an SD, is it treated like a normal dog bite?
I don't know, actually, I imagine so, but someone else will have to answer that one.

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Originally Posted by Airn View Post
What if you are in an area with your SD and someone is uncomfortable with dogs? Like a phobia or allergic or something serious? Or the awful realization that....some people don't like dogs! (Wish that worked with some children. Yikes.)
If you had read the ADA's section on Service Dogs, which has been linked several times, you would know that, "Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airn View Post
It just seems like it would be so difficult to create many regulations. Is there more being done to verify actual SDs? Some of the reasons I've heard for people having an SD is a bit ridiculous. Everyone has issues and dogs, especially YOUR dog is bound to make you feel better. I KNOW most SDs are not just "Oh you make me happy" dogs. But it is a bit of 'some bad apples ruin the whole bunch'.
Legally in order for a dog to be an SD it has to be task trained, "Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA." Faking a SD IS against the law, the DOJ handles cases of fraud, though I don't think it happens often. There is talk of maybe having some kind of registration process, but, at present, there is no Nationally recognized certification or registration necessary for SDs.
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  #36  
Old 01-22-2013, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airn View Post
Well this is all very interesting.

Now a few new questions:

This one is geared towards Fran, but obviously anyone can answer.
What do you do if the dog you are hoping becomes an SD, fails?

He will be a very well trained pet. It is INCREDIBLY common for dogs to fail, less so for seizure response (in comparison to say, guide dogs).. but still, it's a hard job and requires being basically bombproof in many cases. It would suck, of course.. it is a lot of money and time invested but alas..this is the risk I was ready to take on when I decided to train my own dog

Also, if you 'get' an SD, but do not NEED an SD, is it still legal to take the dog places? Or if the dog is trained for a certain disability, such as responding to a person who is in a wheelchair, and is now owned by someone who has a disability such as.... Austism. What should happen to the dog in that situation? Is it re-trained or should the new owner focus on getting an SD that is better suited to his/her needs?

The right to have a service dog go places is with the handler, not the dog. So yes, it is illegal to parade around with a service dog that you don't need (even if the dog is trained) It's like taking someones wheelchair and wanting to skip the line at disney world.. it is a real wheelchair, you are sitting in it, but it isn't YOURS.

As for the trained dog..what would happen to the dog depends on the handler and the dog.. I'm sure some dogs could be re-trained, some couldn't/some would rather retire. If the dog is young and proven to be a stable, happy to work dog, I would imagine it would be totally ok to re-train the dog to suit your needs.


Ideally SDs behaved excellently and do not bark/bite/misbehave. However, if someone/thing is bit by an SD, is it treated like a normal dog bite?

Honestly, I don't know. It is treated much like a regular dog bite I suppose.. but I would guess if the police are involved, the handler's dogs public access rights might be affected. No idea honestly. No dog who is aggressive should be a service dog honestly.

What if you are in an area with your SD and someone is uncomfortable with dogs? Like a phobia or allergic or something serious? Or the awful realization that....some people don't like dogs! (Wish that worked with some children. Yikes.)

Service dogs are not supposed to bother anyone (that includes touching or drawing attention to themselves) They should also be well groomed (so fur/dander isn't flying) so what they do if they face someone with allergies I assume is up to the handler, I would personally be fine with moving or doing what I can to get away from that person.

As for phobias/not liking dogs, again, the dog is on leash, shouldn't be touching, making noise or otherwise bothering people, if these people are still bothered by his presence then well.. they are outta luck. They can move or leave the situation. I am not going to leave or bend over backwards to leave a situation when my dog isn't bothering anyone and the person is just personally offended by him being AROUND minding his own business.

The ADA covers allergies/phobies better than I have.


It just seems like it would be so difficult to create many regulations. Is there more being done to verify actual SDs? Some of the reasons I've heard for people having an SD is a bit ridiculous. Everyone has issues and dogs, especially YOUR dog is bound to make you feel better. I KNOW most SDs are not just "Oh you make me happy" dogs. But it is a bit of 'some bad apples ruin the whole bunch'.

It's easier said than done when it comes to "making more regulations" how would a test be put into affect? what kind of proof? what would qualify? it's a complicated issue. As far as I know..as it is, the ADA is staying the way it is. There are bad apples yes, but there are more good ones than bad and to try to weed out the bad, could harm the good.. and frankly, why would the bad apples care about new rules anyway?
necessary text.
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  #37  
Old 01-22-2013, 07:13 PM
CatStina CatStina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
What is the benefit of having a dog 'officially' an ESA? They have no access rights. The big thing I've seen is housing, which wouldn't affect most people.

Since ESAs don't do any specific tasks to mitigate a disability, how do you get an ESA? Do you just need a diagnosis?

I'm not looking at getting an ESA, but I just don't really understand.
An ESA provides comfort or emotional support. In order to get an ESA, you have to be diagnosed with a disability and having a pet will help you "feel better." The benefit of having an ESA is that you can live in housing that generally doesn't allow animals and you can bring the animal on an airplane at no extra charge.
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  #38  
Old 01-22-2013, 08:04 PM
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Laur - an ESA is designated an ESA primarily for housing or flight. I got Gavroche's designation before I moved into no-pets housing. Most people that have an ESA don't have it officially designated as one because they don't need it. It really is just a pet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airn View Post
Well this is all very interesting.

Now a few new questions:

This one is geared towards Fran, but obviously anyone can answer.
What do you do if the dog you are hoping becomes an SD, fails? I assume you don't want to get 'rid' of the dog, but I would imagine with all the money and time it takes to train this dog, failing would be pretty hard. Is it common for dogs to 'fail'?
It is VERY common for a dog to wash out. Very, very common. Most dogs do NOT have what it takes to be a service dog. This is why you have to find the dog with the right lines, the right temperament, the right size, etc - and even then they can still wash out. This isn't an issue if you get a program dog, the program takes care of all of that for you. Problem is, I have yet to find a reputable autism program, which is why I ended up owner-training Logan.

Some people WILL rehome the dog. If they need a service dog, and they can't have another dog, then they may decide a service dog is more important. I got Logan to be a service dog, but if he washed out I would still have kept him because he's also a competition dog and a pet, and I can't imagine parting with him. But some people get an SD prospect JUST as a prospect, and rehome it if it doesn't make it. Some people will also rehome a dog when it retires, even if it's owner-trained. I couldn't possibly do that myself.

Quote:

Also, if you 'get' an SD, but do not NEED an SD, is it still legal to take the dog places?
NO. If you are not disabled, then the dog is NOT a service dog. The dog is only a service dog when paired with its disabled handler. ITS disabled handler, too, not just ANY disabled handler. They are INDIVIDUALLY trained to perform tasks to mitigate the handler's disability. If a dog's handler dies, it usually goes to stay with family or back to the program for rehoming. If it happens early in the dog's career, the dog may be retrained and placed with another person.

Quote:
Ideally SDs behaved excellently and do not bark/bite/misbehave. However, if someone/thing is bit by an SD, is it treated like a normal dog bite?
Yes, And the dog should no longer be a service dog. Very, very, VERY rarely can a dog that has bitten go back to working, and only under specific circumstances.


Quote:
What if you are in an area with your SD and someone is uncomfortable with dogs? Like a phobia or allergic or something serious? Or the awful realization that....some people don't like dogs! (Wish that worked with some children. Yikes.)
The person that is afraid/allergic/whatever can move away. I have every right to be in the grocery store with my service dog even if the person next to me doesn't like dogs. Deal with it. People DO come around a corner and scream when they see a dog in the store. Stupid, but it happens, just like people WILL bark at your service dog. For the most part, I ignore it and continue minding my own business. If someone is allergic to dogs, they'll react to the dander on any dog owner's clothes. A properly maintained service dog doesn't have fur flying and should be bathes regularly to keep dander to a minimum.

Quote:
It just seems like it would be so difficult to create many regulations. Is there more being done to verify actual SDs? Some of the reasons I've heard for people having an SD is a bit ridiculous. Everyone has issues and dogs, especially YOUR dog is bound to make you feel better. I KNOW most SDs are not just "Oh you make me happy" dogs. But it is a bit of 'some bad apples ruin the whole bunch'.
A person MUST be disabled to have a service dog. If they're not, they're fakers, and that's illegal. It can go so far as them losing their social security benefits if they're faking. I feel national certification is in the future, whether that's good or bad I'm still a bit undecided. But thanks to the "PSD Explosion"
and people gabbing on about "THEIR RIGHTS!" people think they can just take their pet dog anywhere and claim it's a PSD even though it's NOT task trained and they DON'T have a disability (prior to PSDs being common, these types of people claimed the dog was for seizures and the like...basically, anything invisible). The people who do this are costing real service dog teams because their dogs are NOT behaving like service dogs and the handlers are NOT behaving like good service dog handlers. And THAT is why certification is looming. They did recently tighten up the laws a bit. A service animal is now dogs only, no parrots or snakes or anything ridiculous. If you are flying and have a PSD, you need documentation. No other SDs do, just PSDs. It's awful that it had to come to that.
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  #39  
Old 01-22-2013, 08:12 PM
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I thought you needed documentation to fly with any SD? That's a bit annoying to find out...
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  #40  
Old 01-22-2013, 08:20 PM
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NM, I'll post when home, I'm not making sense.
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