Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dogs - General Dog Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 01-22-2013, 05:57 PM
AdrianneIsabel's Avatar
AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
Glutton for Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8,893
Default

Here are some quotes from US Department of Justice (DOJ) officials on the subject of emotional support animals vs service animals. Note that the DOJ is the federal agency responsible for enforcing title III of the ADA (which is what gives public access rights to persons using service animals).

"The way we look at it is what the regulation says is that a service animal is an animal that's trained to provide services for a person. So something that is just a pet is not, and we try to be broad, because there could be a whole range of services that an animal can be trained to provide, but it has to be trained to do it and it has to be doing services. Because there has been a great deal of misunderstanding and we are told by a number of guide dog users around the country of abuses that are occurring and a backlash that's happening to people with service animals because of it. When we do the regulations that I'm talking about in the fall, we're going to ask questions about this issue and be specific about this. Should emotional support animals be covered by the ADA? Should they be required to be in restaurants? Should they be required to be in public transportation? In our view, they're not covered now unless they are providing a service to the person."

John Wodatch, Chief, Disability Rights Section, Office of Civil Rights, U.S. Department of Justice (from July 17, 2001 conference)

"An emotional support animal is not going to be a service animal under the ADA unless it does meet the [task] training requirement."

Phillip L. Breen, Special Legal Counsel, Disability Rights Section, Office of Civil Rights, U.S. Department of Justice (from April 16, 2002 conference)

"Generally speaking, if we're talking about therapy, comfort, emotional support animals -- and I think those typically are used interchangeably. Those are not going to be service animals under the ADA because they haven't been trained to -- remember that three-part -- that definition, they haven't been trained to do work or perform a task for the benefit of an individual with a disability. Typically, comfort, emotional support animals by their very presence certainly performs a valuable service, but it's an innate ability. It's their mere presence. It doesn't reach the level of having been trained to do work or perform tasks."

Sally Conway, Disability Rights Section, Office of Civil Rights, U.S. Department of Justice (from April 29, 2004 conference)

My dog was initially called an ESA prior to the law clarification, post clarification he was relabeled as a PSA and my second dog (trained when a relapse occurred and my previous dog was no longer an appropriate option) continues to muddy the line of retired and a back up plan should **** hit the fan.
__________________
Sloan von Krigbaum IPO1 CGC BH CD NA NJ PD MJ-N RATI RATN 3/7/10 -
Shamoo NJ-N RATI RATN 3/1/98 -
Phelan du Loups du Soleil CGC RATI 6/15/13 -
Chili Brigades Brover 5/23/14 -

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
Backup CGC HIC CD SRD SJ-N RATI 12/29/09 - 07/05/13

You were amazing, we did amazing things.


Harmony Canine, relationship based training.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-22-2013, 06:00 PM
JacksonsMom's Avatar
JacksonsMom JacksonsMom is online now
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,919
Default

I haven't looked into it a whole lot. The only main things I know are they can go on an airplane (not have to be shoved under a seat, also not charged) and if your in a building that does not normally allow dogs, I think they have to allow ESD's. I guess that's what I mean by emergencies. If I ever found myself in a situation where I needed to fly him or found myself in a living situation where he couldn't be there (both would be very rare). He already is an emotional support to me every single day, in more ways than one could know, so it was always in the back of my mind to get him 'titled' as such. My anxiety comes in spurts - it's certainly not enough to require a SD. Traveling brings on a lot of anxiety in me. I had my first real panic attack shortly after my car accident in '10 and it was SCARY. I never used to understand. My mom suffers from depression and panic attacks, and I just... never understood until I had my first. It was horrible. And I did not have Jackson with me at the time either. When he's with me, I tend to calm myself quickly, because he senses me tensing up, and I don't want to stress HIM, so it makes ME less stressed. If that makes sense. So basically that was the only reason I considered it. I know he wouldn't really have any more rights than he does now.
__________________

Brit & Jackson


Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-22-2013, 06:01 PM
joce's Avatar
joce joce is online now
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,156
Default

I don't know a ton about it. I know we now have a local psychiatrist that is having patients get real therapy dogs though. Caresource is paying for it. Kinda shocked me.

I heard they are supposed to come with a year of training and be expensive so not sure what kind thats considered?

Long wait list.
__________________


If I have any beliefs about immortality, it is that certain
dogs I have known will go to heaven, and very, very few
persons -James Thurber
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-22-2013, 06:03 PM
JacksonsMom's Avatar
JacksonsMom JacksonsMom is online now
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,919
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
Here are some quotes from US Department of Justice (DOJ) officials on the subject of emotional support animals vs service animals. Note that the DOJ is the federal agency responsible for enforcing title III of the ADA (which is what gives public access rights to persons using service animals).

"The way we look at it is what the regulation says is that a service animal is an animal that's trained to provide services for a person. So something that is just a pet is not, and we try to be broad, because there could be a whole range of services that an animal can be trained to provide, but it has to be trained to do it and it has to be doing services. Because there has been a great deal of misunderstanding and we are told by a number of guide dog users around the country of abuses that are occurring and a backlash that's happening to people with service animals because of it. When we do the regulations that I'm talking about in the fall, we're going to ask questions about this issue and be specific about this. Should emotional support animals be covered by the ADA? Should they be required to be in restaurants? Should they be required to be in public transportation? In our view, they're not covered now unless they are providing a service to the person."

John Wodatch, Chief, Disability Rights Section, Office of Civil Rights, U.S. Department of Justice (from July 17, 2001 conference)

"An emotional support animal is not going to be a service animal under the ADA unless it does meet the [task] training requirement."

Phillip L. Breen, Special Legal Counsel, Disability Rights Section, Office of Civil Rights, U.S. Department of Justice (from April 16, 2002 conference)

"Generally speaking, if we're talking about therapy, comfort, emotional support animals -- and I think those typically are used interchangeably. Those are not going to be service animals under the ADA because they haven't been trained to -- remember that three-part -- that definition, they haven't been trained to do work or perform a task for the benefit of an individual with a disability. Typically, comfort, emotional support animals by their very presence certainly performs a valuable service, but it's an innate ability. It's their mere presence. It doesn't reach the level of having been trained to do work or perform tasks."

Sally Conway, Disability Rights Section, Office of Civil Rights, U.S. Department of Justice (from April 29, 2004 conference)

My dog was initially called an ESA prior to the law clarification, post clarification he was relabeled as a PSA and my second dog (trained when a relapse occurred and my previous dog was no longer an appropriate option) continues to muddy the line of retired and a back up plan should **** hit the fan.
Thank you for the info!
__________________

Brit & Jackson


Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-22-2013, 06:04 PM
CatStina CatStina is offline
SBT Lover!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 634
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joce View Post
I don't know a ton about it. I know we now have a local psychiatrist that is having patients get real therapy dogs though. Caresource is paying for it. Kinda shocked me.

I heard they are supposed to come with a year of training and be expensive so not sure what kind thats considered?

Long wait list.
You probably mean service dogs, therapy dogs are well behaved pet dogs that visit patients in hospitals, nursing homes, etc. You do not need a prescription for a therapy dog and therapy dogs have no public access rights.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-22-2013, 06:09 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,036
Default

Quote:
That's what I thought, is there some place to report places who deny SD entrance? If so, I'll get the name from David, might ahve him run there to make sure they still have the sign up and report them.
You can report it to the DOJ, but ONLY if YOU are the one denied access. A sign itself can't really be reported. You can mention it to the store manager if you'd like.


Quote:
Anyone have an ESA?
Gavroche is my ESA (for my autism spectrum disorder). A handler does NOT have the right to take an ESA in public other than where pets are allowed anyway. The only two exceptions are airplanes (DOT) and housing (FHAA). An ESA is NOT a service dog. You must be disabled by psychiatric disorder (aka in the DSM) or be elderly to have an ESA. If you intend to take your dog on a plane or in housing, you MUST have a letter from the mental health professional that is treating you and has prescribed the ESA. They are primarily for home use.


Logan is my service dog. I have him for my autism spectrum disorder. I got him at a year old, and trained him for just over 2 years. Training a service dog from a puppy should take 2 years, give or take a few months. A dog is not a service dog when they're a puppy, even an older puppy. I anticipated it would take just over a year to train Logan, but it ended up taking a year longer than that, which is fine. Slow is fast in the SD world.

Logan has several tasks, some of which I use more often than others. Because I have Gavroche, Logan doesn't work much at home. Gavroche works at home, Logan works in public. Gavroche is EXCELLENT at deep pressure tasks and loves doing them, and Logan just doesn't care for them, so it actually works out pretty well. Logan will do them if I need them while we're out and about, but for the most part I need them at home. Logan does some guide work, signal work (signals to my flapping my hands or picking at my face/chewing at my fingers), balance work, blocking at intersections, finding the car, finding exits, finding bathrooms, etc. I didn't realize how much he helps me until he had to stay home when I went shopping the other day (my mom said he might have diarrhea, and I didn't want to risk it). I was falling and tripping and running into things all over the place and just not doing well. He's only been working full time since August/September, but by now it's "normal" for him to be with me.


Service dogs are NOT allowed absolutely everywhere. It comes down to reasonableness. As mentioned earlier, sterile rooms are off limits, whether it's in a hospital or in manufacturing or whatever. If you have to put on special equipment or take precautions going in somewhere, generally the dog is not allowed. If it is a fundamental alternation or direct threat to the place you are going, the dog is not allowed (for example, an open air aviary). If your dog causes a disruption, you can be asked to remove the dog. And then there are places where it's unsafe or unwise to take a service dog, like loud concerts, ice skating, etc. They're not barred from a place like that, but a good handler would think twice before taking the dog, and make other arrangements if needed (like a service human).

I do not take Logan to work with me because I work with animals in both my jobs. It's unreasonable and unsafe to bring a service dog into the exam room while someone else has their (potentially infectious/aggressive) dog in the exam room. It's also unreasonable to bring a service dog into the animal rooms behind the scenes at the zoo - not because he would do anything, but because his presence alone would stress the animals, and there are times an animal is loose in the room (especially the bird). I do not take him to classes at the zoo or our labs involving animals for the same reason.

And my pet peeve - the service dog does not have the rights. The disabled handler has the rights.

Last edited by Saeleofu; 01-22-2013 at 06:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-22-2013, 06:23 PM
CatStina CatStina is offline
SBT Lover!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 634
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saeleofu View Post
You can report it to the DOJ, but ONLY if YOU are the one denied access. A sign itself can't really be reported. You can mention it to the store manager if you'd like.




Gavroche is my ESA (for my autism spectrum disorder). A handler does NOT have the right to take an ESA in public other than where pets are allowed anyway. The only two exceptions are airplanes (DOT) and housing (FHAA). An ESA is NOT a service dog. You must be disabled by psychiatric disorder (aka in the DSM) or be elderly to have an ESA. If you intend to take your dog on a plane or in housing, you MUST have a letter from the mental health professional that is treating you and has prescribed the ESA. They are primarily for home use.


Logan is my service dog. I have him for my autism spectrum disorder. I got him at a year old, and trained him for just over 2 years. Training a service dog from a puppy should take 2 years, give or take a few months. A dog is not a service dog when they're a puppy, even an older puppy. I anticipated it would take just over a year to train Logan, but it ended up taking a year longer than that, which is fine. Slow is fast in the SD world.

Logan has several tasks, some of which I use more often than others. Because I have Gavroche, Logan doesn't work much at home. Gavroche works at home, Logan works in public. Gavroche is EXCELLENT at deep pressure tasks and loves doing them, and Logan just doesn't care for them, so it actually works out pretty well. Logan will do them if I need them while we're out and about, but for the most part I need them at home. Logan does some guide work, signal work (signals to my flapping my hands or picking at my face/chewing at my fingers), balance work, blocking at intersections, finding the car, finding exits, finding bathrooms, etc. I didn't realize how much he helps me until he had to stay home when I went shopping the other day (my mom said he might have diarrhea, and I didn't want to risk it). I was falling and tripping and running into things all over the place and just not doing well. He's only been working full time since August/September, but by now it's "normal" for him to be with me.


Service dogs are NOT allowed absolutely everywhere. It comes down to reasonableness. As mentioned earlier, sterile rooms are off limits, whether it's in a hospital or in manufacturing or whatever. If you have to put on special equipment or take precautions going in somewhere, generally the dog is not allowed. If it is a fundamental alternation or direct threat to the place you are going, the dog is not allowed (for example, an open air aviary). If your dog causes a disruption, you can be asked to remove the dog. And then there are places where it's unsafe or unwise to take a service dog, like loud concerts, ice skating, etc. They're not barred from a place like that, but a good handler would think twice before taking the dog, and make other arrangements if needed (like a service human).

I do not take Logan to work with me because I work with animals in both my jobs. It's unreasonable and unsafe to bring a service dog into the exam room while someone else has their (potentially infectious/aggressive) dog in the exam room. It's also unreasonable to bring a service dog into the animal rooms behind the scenes at the zoo - not because he would do anything, but because his presence alone would stress the animals, and there are times an animal is loose in the room (especially the bird). I do not take him to classes at the zoo or our labs involving animals for the same reason.

And my pet peeve - the service dog does not have the right. The disabled handler has the rights.
Great post!! Thanks for this!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-22-2013, 06:33 PM
Fran101's Avatar
Fran101 Fran101 is offline
Resident fainting goat
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 12,292
Default

Merlin is my SD prospect puppy lol he isn't "in training" yet officially and doesn't get his "service dog in training" vest until he is a bit older and more on his way.

I am working with a trainer. It's not something I could feasibly do myself so I have a private trainer who works with us. The trainer has a co-operative program that involves basically working with us and mostly A LOT of training me to train him (as well as socialization workshops and decided when we "pass" to the next level, kind of thing)
I found a trainer with a comprehensive training program/plan and went from there. All things go without a hitch, the whole thing takes about 3 years.

Before graduation (as well as getting through the program) he must..
- Pass his CGC
- Pass his OFAs with fair or above
- Be able to complete the PAT (Public access test)
- Be neutered (which is not something I'm incredibly fond of but..alas.)

The trainer himself is pretty hands off other than the formal exams to pass to the next level. He works with me TO learn how to work with Merlin. I have private lessons once a month.. but we attend group classes which are all held by a local obedience club (held by a trainer he knows who knows our situation/needs) every week.

Merlin is going to (hopefully) be a seizure response dog. I have epilepsy and my seizures are very frequent and resemble fainting spells. I wake up through tactile stimulation (nudging hands, nose poking kind of thing)..which is what Merlin will be trained to do. He will also learn to stay by me when I fall and sit next to me (sometimes I wake up disoriented and it's nice to have something..stable) as well as hand me my meds and water bottle when I wake up (I often can't see straight and have trouble fishing around for the bottle/water bottle)

Having Merlin, when he is trained.. means I can go places by myself without fear of dropping somewhere and not waking up or not being found. It's independence.. finally.

Right now he is what is called a "prospect puppy" his training is much like any very socialized puppy. He is experiencing new things,places, people and learning basic manners and clicker skills.

He doesn't wear a vest or anything but when he is feeling formal..

lol
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-22-2013, 06:44 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,036
Default

Fran, I'm curious...has Merlin started to show any sign of alerting yet? They say if a dog will alert, it starts within the first 6 months of being with someone.

Of course he'll make a fantastic response dog either way, but I was curious about whether he's started alerting or not
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-22-2013, 06:49 PM
Fran101's Avatar
Fran101 Fran101 is offline
Resident fainting goat
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 12,292
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saeleofu View Post
Fran, I'm curious...has Merlin started to show any sign of alerting yet? They say if a dog will alert, it starts within the first 6 months of being with someone.

Of course he'll make a fantastic response dog either way, but I was curious about whether he's started alerting or not
It's so weird, since having him.. I never have seizures around him. According to my mother "IT'S A MAGIC PUPPY!!" so we shall see. I don't have much hope he will alert, my seizures come on very quickly according to my scans, but hey, who knows!
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:06 PM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site