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Old 04-09-2006, 12:28 AM
jess2416's Avatar
jess2416 jess2416 is offline
Who woulda thought <3
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NC
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Why cant you have another one unless you breed him.. There are hundreds and thousands and hundreds of thousands of dogs in shelters and in breed rescues...and I have seen a lot of shihtzu (sp) here
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Old 04-09-2006, 12:42 AM
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RobinKalmick RobinKalmick is offline
my baby boy
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: texas
Posts: 22

Originally Posted by jess2416
Why cant you have another one unless you breed him.. There are hundreds and thousands and hundreds of thousands of dogs in shelters and in breed rescues...and I have seen a lot of shihtzu (sp) here
lol. too much money !!!
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Old 04-09-2006, 12:49 AM
Saje Saje is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 23,932

and you think breeding isn't money??!!! I think you'll end up spending thousands of dollars if you breed. I don't breed because I don't have that kind of time or money. And I know nothing about shitzus so I don't know what kind of tests they need.

I really hope that you are the kind of person who appreciates the value of educating yourself. There's a lot to learn about this subject.
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Old 04-09-2006, 12:50 AM
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bubbatd bubbatd is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 64,812

Robin ...this has nothing to do with religion etc. You were deeply hurt when you lost your Golden and you are trying to cover up further pain. I know where you're coming from as this is the first time in over 50 years that I've been down to one dog. Your dog is only two yrs. old ... enjoy him !! Don't think of when he may be gone. My Chip will be 10 in Dec........ I'm not pan icing. What will be, will be. Your life will change so much in the next 10 yrs.... where will you and your dog ( or dogs be ) ??
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Old 04-09-2006, 01:52 AM
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yoko yoko is offline
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robin try staying around the forum you'll learna lot here
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Old 04-09-2006, 02:56 AM
~Tucker&Me~ ~Tucker&Me~ is offline
and Spy.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: B.C.
Posts: 4,940

PLEASE stick around! There is so much to learn, and maybe in the long run you will become a breeder. But there is so much to know, and lots of money to be spent in breeding. I wouldn't dream of breeding unless I had an amazing, show quality dog and was financially secure. They would be fully health tested and showed.
Please reconsider.
If you love animals as much as you say you do, then you will neuter your shitzu and rescue! Besides, rescuing will save you thousands of dollars and sleepless nights worrying about birthing and puppies.

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Old 04-09-2006, 05:45 AM
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tempura tantrum tempura tantrum is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: pacific northwest
Posts: 768

Hey Robin-

Glad you're thinking this through and listening to the advice people are offering here- that's definitely the sign of a bright young person, and we all sincerely hope you stay on this forum to continue to learn and share your own experiences as well.

You may think adopting or buying a new dog isn't cheap, but let me tell ya, it is *nothing* compared to how expensive breeding is (especially if you're doing it right. Breeding right involves tons of health tests, hip and eye certification, and extensive background checks of the dogs you are using. Anyone who is breeding should be involved in some kind of independently evaluated competition (for most people that is conformation- although many people devote their time to obedience, herding, agility, lure coursing, schutzhund...whatever their breed excels at).

Almost all of us would like to think that our dogs are the best of their kind- that there simply isn't better. But in order to know that our dogs are truly worthy of being bred, we need other knowledgeable people to evaluate them. It's exactly like getting a grade from a teacher at school. If you were allowed to grade yourself, wouldn't you be tempted to give yourself a really high grade without doing your best work? Teachers help keep us honest, and teach us how to improve. People who judge dog shows do the same with breeding programs- they help us understand what needs improvement, and whether or not our animals "make the grade."

As far as whelping a litter- especially with toy breeds, labor can be difficult, often requiring a C-section. Would your parents be prepared to rush the dam to the vet in the event she would need one? Would they be able to recognize that the labor was difficult in the first place?

Knowing the ancestry of both dogs would be incredibly important as well. If your shih tzu boy is too big for the standard, and the bitch you choose too small, you may actually end up endangering her life- making natural birth difficult or even impossible because the puppies are too big for her.

BTW Robin,

I want to be a vet too- I'm hoping to apply to vet school in just about 2 years. So anytime you'd like to chat about it, send me a PM, okay?

Finally, if you eventually decide that you would like to get into breeding Shih Tzus responsibly and ethically- go to some shows! Talk to breeders whose dogs you like, and see if they will allow you to shadow and learn from them. Research Junior Showmanship- I'm pretty sure you would have a blast with this- AND you could learn it with your current dog. You can compete in Junior Showmanship with a neutered dog, and learn TONS about properly showing and presenting your Shih Tzu. It's worth a look- and what better way to show your dog you love HIM, than by spending time with him?
Kan-i, Ryosei, Soboku

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Old 04-09-2006, 06:30 AM
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Rubylove Rubylove is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Lovely sunny Perth! :-)
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Good on you Robin for listening to the helpful advice you've received here.

Trust me, as others have said, breeding your dog to get a puppy would cost you SOOOOOOOO much more than rescuing a needy puppy from a shelter!! Soooo much more! And not only that, breeding and having litters is not that easy for the dog, either. What if the mother of your puppies dies while she's whelping? That alone is a reason to leave the breeding to the professionals. You don't want to be responsible for the pain and death of another dog, and possibly her litter, too.

If you love your animals so much and want to be a vet, is there anywhere near you where you can volunteer?? I volunteer, and it is such a wonderful way to spend LOTS of time with animals that need love, without the expense of owning lots yourself! It's also so rewarding for your heart to know you are doing your bit to help animals in need.

That way, you can also learn so much about dogs, and one day when you are a little older and more experienced you can perhaps think about being a proper breeder.

I'm glad you are starting to understand the responsibilities of breeding your dog, and the fact that people who just breed `cos they want to' are called Backyard Breeders, and only help to contribute to the unwanted puppy situation in the world.

I would strongly suggest that from the way you've described yourself, you have a very big heart and that you could work with animals every day if you wanted to, and have all the dogs your heart desires, if you go volunteer at a shelter.
Chester and Ruby

We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare, and love we can spare. In return they give us their all. It is the best deal man has ever made
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Old 04-09-2006, 09:10 AM
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AusCatDogs_4Ever AusCatDogs_4Ever is offline
but please call me Aus.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
Posts: 3,487

Like others have said, I'm glad your having second thoughts and taking advice from us chazzers, please stay and post lots of stories and pics (if you can) of your cute shih tzu. We are all dog lovers here and we love meeting other members dogs!

My first dog died the same way, she was a big yellow Lab mix, she too could no longer stand from arthritis after she got old.
Need Your Charlie Fix?
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Old 04-09-2006, 10:48 AM
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FoxyWench FoxyWench is offline
Salty Sea Dog
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 7,308

you asked how much it would cost to breed and ill tell you this honestly (i breed chihuahuas) you could probably buy 3 nice purebred dogs for the price of the initial health testing alone!
then theres the cost of any complications that could arise many responsible stud owners will pay 1/2 of a c-section cost. (round here thats at least another $1500) ive seen sitzus for that cost so now were up to 4 purbred dogs you could buy.

then as a result many bitch owners have clauses in the contract that if they have under a certain number of puppies you have to take a stud fee, ive seen stud fees as low as $200 in which case all that money for health teasts has just vanished...
if in fact you do end up with a puppy from the litter (and you will only be given 1), likley hood is itll be the completle opposite of its father. and then you have cost of initial vacinations health check ect (all of whis is now your responsibilty because its your puppy) i reckon with the initial vacination schedual youd be halfway to buying a 5th puppy...then theres registration fees, plus cost of spay/neuter when the time comes which is usually the other half of that 5th puppy)
so all in all the entire cost of breeding your dog responsiby would cost you the equivalent of buying 5 pure bred shitzu, when you think of it that way, you might was well rescue or find a breeder to buy from.

my biggest suggestion if you planning on breeding is first attend ANY dog shows in your area, even if there not the breed your interested in, this will help you get a vision for what makes a good example of the breed. while there you can talk to handlers and breeders...
try and find a breeder (of the breed your interested in focusing on) in your area and see if theyd be willing to mentor you, some will teach and let you handle the dogs in the ring, theyll show you how to groom the dogs for show and then start teaching you about everything that goes into breeding. most of the time you wont be paid for this, think of it as aprenticing. work with that breeder for at least 3 years, during that time also reaserch online and in books, youll be learning everything from how to read and interpret a pedigree to colour genetics...belive me youll be busy for that 3 years. especially during whelping, the breeder will usually have you come in when the bitch is giving birth to assist in case needed and show you how to remove the sack, tie off the cord, how to weigh and record the puppies info properly and removing fluid from the lungs and mouth ect.
once the breeder thinks your ready they will tell you. and for the first couple of litters of your own the mentor will usually help you.

the first thing you will lern though if your truly interested in that NO responsible breeder makes money off breeding...infact your lucky if you break even after checkups for the bitch stud fees ect.
breeding is in fact a labour of love, not a buisness....if the breeder is making money of the litter, there skipping some important steps along the way.

im glad youre taking the time to look into it, i know many times its a harsh realty, it seems as easy as putting 2 dogs together (and unfortunatly is usually what most poeple do) they want a puppy so they take their rex breed it to sally down the street and take a puppy as the fee, what they dont realize untill 2 yrs your poor golden is that the dog has all sorts of genetic problems, bad arthritis, and knee and hip problems, severe alergies, many times they often have even behavioural problems...

i hope this answers alot of your questions...
were your parents ok with breeding your dog for you to have a puppy?!
if so why not tell them how much it costs and see if they'd allow you to adopt a puppy from a shelter or find a breeder (it is cheaper than breeding)
is he not companion enough for you?!
perhaps instead of looking for a purebred stop by your local shelter (many in larger cities have very low adoption fees) and find a small mixed breed (some even do have purbreed dogs) and give a shelter dog a second chance on life...most come already up to date on shots and spayed/neutered so you dont have to worry about the initial vet care cost.

you could possibly get a part time job and raise the money yourself? im sure your parents would apreciate it more if you came up with the cost of the dog yourself...

if another is truly out of the question why not stop by your local shelter and see if they are looking for volunteers...
i loved working at the shelter, and instead of just having one dog to play with i had 35 to love and groom and play fetch with...and you could see in their eyes, even 1/2 hour of love was apreciated...

I wonder if other dogs think Cresties are members of some weird religious cult?

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