Coolies

[Aleron]

Originally Posted by Upendi&Mina

Looking again the only one I'd change is the first, looking at expression it looks more like pyr shep.

First is a PyrShep

Second is a PyrShep

Third is an Aussie

Fourth is an Aussie

Fifth is PyrShep

Sixth is a PyrShep

So definitely...some PyrSheps look like working Aussies Although to be fair, they are likely a foundation breed for Aussies. It is funny though cause looking at this, you never think Aussie:

[CharlieDog]

Originally Posted by avaloncoolies

trust me it is working ability that these breeders are looking for, including myself, if anything the standard on paper (or web page) is to satisfy people as yourselves with questions about standards and looks

So again, I say, if Ozzy worked like a Koolie, and I don't know if he does, I'm afeared for the sheep I'd have to introduce him to, he would be a Koolie. His angulation, head shape and tail set can be explained by poor breeding practices. I've seen plenty of Koolies with straight legs, and if curly tails don't exist in Koolies, then what is Zinga, because as I understand it, hers curls too. Most dog breeds carry for gay tails. Even GSDs.

And if I was in Australia, he would either be a Koolie or a Koolie mix. Not what he actually is, if I had plucked him out of the shelter. It's only by virtue of me being in the US that he's not.

So either it's the type that defines a Koolie, which you've already said, or it's the way they work that defines a Koolie, which, pending introduction to sheep, could possibly make Ozzy a Koolie.

so which is it?

And if your Coolies have Koolie a few generations back, and your Koolies have Coolie in them, but they're completely different breeds now, then what are your dogs? Mutts?

[Lyzelle]

Originally Posted by Psyfalcon

By bringing them to North America though, you are creating a bottle neck, and the breed will diverge from the originals in some way. The Siberian for example does not look or work exactly like the first imports did if you look at modern racing or show lines. The ones that are most like those are the ones working in a way as close to the original as possible.

Actually, the AKC Siberian Huskies do not share the same origins to Seppala's stock, or the CAN/EUR lines. That is why they look different. They were bred only for conformation from the very beginning, and 90% of the breed in the AKC came from 2 kennels.

I think of the K/Coolie more as an Alaskan. The Alaskan has no physical standard, only a working one. Many Alaskan lines are bred for one avenue of work, and some breeders are no longer outcrossing their dogs. Those lines conformed VERY quickly. You can tell they are related, they are bred for one purpose. Ditto Chinooks.

Which is why I don't "buy" that these C/Koolies are no longer being outcrossed. Even feral populations even out fairly quickly, especially with a smaller gene pool. The consistency emerges after only a few generations. Are there still differences? Of course! If any breeds have showed that, it's the Aussie and BC. Even the Sibes. Major differences DO occur in head type, overall bone, and most other conformation aspects. But almost any dog person can pick out an Aussie, a BC, and a Sibe from a crowd.

I'm not so sure the same could be said of a c/Koolie. Especially with not even a loose standard.

Or maybe Avalon's dogs and Yata Hae's dogs and Coolibar's dogs all came from different origins, like the first AKC Sibes? And that is why they look so incredibly different from other breeders?(not just Linds and Sara's breeder, but others as well)

[avaloncoolies]

There are curly tails like sharpeis (like ozzys) and then there are gay tails...like zinga i am assuming...so still and because i know ozzy i not a coolie i would also know he would not work like one...again this comes down to a trained eye...and a knowledge of the different kennels...the seperation in coolies is a decade old, so yes you will one in the other, and some still do as they please with that...depends on who you talk to in the breed...and so far chaz has only had Linds Sara and only recently myself...

[avaloncoolies]

and on a side note, the information given to you all at chaz so far has been pretty basic and superficial

[CharlieDog]

Originally Posted by avaloncoolies

There are curly tails like sharpeis (like ozzys) and then there are gay tails...like zinga i am assuming...so still and because i know ozzy i not a coolie i would also know he would not work like one...again this comes down to a trained eye...and a knowledge of the different kennels...the seperation in coolies is a decade old, so yes you will one in the other, and some still do as they please with that...depends on who you talk to in the breed...and so far chaz has only had Linds Sara and only recently myself...

Ozzy's tail is not like a sharpeis, that is the trick of the camera. He normally carries it loosely behind him, just curled. It is really nothing like a sharpei tail. And I've met plenty of sharpeis to know.

And you don't know, because no one has ever seen him work. So that's out right there.

And you have no idea who I've talked to about Koolies, so please don't assume.

You yourself were the one that said Koolies are different from Coolies, and then went on to say your dogs were a mix of Koolie and Coolie. So if you're mixing them, again I ask, what does that make your dogs?

[avaloncoolies]

I have a very good friend in the sledding world and I will make sure to pick her brains about Alaskans and the split, so that i can comment from a more informed position...sounds interesting

[avaloncoolies]

I am not mixing anything...I breed German Coolie to German Coolie....there are breeders lines in my dogs history that call their dogs Australian Coolies (Toolalla) yes...

[avaloncoolies]

And I was only asked to judge Ozzy by his picture so camera tricks are included I guess....but I can assure you that no matter how many different pictures you post of him I will maintain my assurance he is not Koolie nor Coolie

[CharlieDog]

You are not answering the question.