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Old 01-06-2013, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
I always wish we had xrays of these dogs (this type of example) at a young age. I have a friend who's Dogo was sired by a dog who at 12 had horrific hip issues, until then he'd been hunting hogs and working security on the ranch, never showing a sign. I brought this up once as an example of and the rebuttle was given, but the dog is 12... who's to say the hips didn't just break down after that hard of work for that long? It's an interesting point.
They are interesting cases. My TD(he owned the Rottie in question) said that looking back, there was signs of it in the way the dog moved but they were small signs.

Personally, I believe that if a dog is going to have bad hips, they are going to regardless of the care. I do believe in environmental HD to a point. But I have a mentor/breeder/friend that has an extremely nice line of dogs. Her dog's hips consistently produce hips that are better or equal to them. Comparatively, her incidents of HD are uncommon. Her dogs work hard. They run, they jump and are allowed to be dogs, she feeds good foods and a Glucosamine/Choindroitin/MSM supplement but that's it. So, I have a hard time swallowing the environemental HD thing completely. I think it can happen but it is few and far between IMHO. But she is a breeder that has sought out good strong lines that produce good strong hips. IDK.

ETA- Her dogs also produce consistent type and conformation.
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  #92  
Old 01-06-2013, 02:23 AM
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So trying to stay on topic here, well we were off topic from my initial coolie intro thread but now we are definalty going way OT...so I would like to propose a little game:

Like I said I beleive Coolies have a consistency within the different breeding programs (which reflect differences in purpose of work, needs, geographical location in aus., breeder preferences etc...) so here is a collage of 3 avalon coolies produced by moi (me in french)...3 Dams / 2 Sires, 3 different litters over 2 1/2 years...who can pick out the coolie that does not share a sire with the other 2?
  #93  
Old 01-06-2013, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by avaloncoolies View Post


So trying to stay on topic here, well we were off topic from my initial coolie intro thread but now we are definalty going way OT...so I would like to propose a little game:

Like I said I beleive Coolies have a consistency within the different breeding programs (which reflect differences in purpose of work, needs, geographical location in aus., breeder preferences etc...) so here is a collage of 3 avalon coolies produced by moi (me in french)...3 Dams / 2 Sires, 3 different litters over 2 1/2 years...who can pick out the coolie that does not share a sire with the other 2?
I'm gonna guess the little guy on the left!!
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:45 AM
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Wow on that Aussie litter I totally would have pegged the black and white one as a BC and the second one from the right looks like a mixed breed. Thanks for posting that Laur!
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  #95  
Old 01-06-2013, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by PWCorgi View Post
Wow on that Aussie litter I totally would have pegged the black and white one as a BC and the second one from the right looks like a mixed breed. Thanks for posting that Laur!
Have you ever met Jane's Finn? He's a Britta kid... and looks quite a bit like the second from the left (BC-like) dog. For that matter, all of Jane's dogs are related and if you stand them next to one another, I'd never be able to tell!
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  #96  
Old 01-06-2013, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Upendi&Mina View Post
Cara gets BC a lot online if the picture does not include her tail or rather lack there of, I have a feeling it has to do with her smaller build.
Yeah there are several agility Aussies around here about whom I was on the fence...Aussie or BC...til they turned away on the course and I saw they were tailless lol. In their case it's the face shape, slighter build/smaller size, and less coat. Not out of range for an Aussie but toward on extreme, and well within the variation for BCs. For me, usually their head shape and ears give away one vs. the other if nothing else, but certainly not always. I have days where I'm half convinced the reason Aussies continue to be docked is to make them visually distinct from BCs

Then again I know a merle BC who was born stumpy-tailed...can't imagine how hard it is for the owners to convince people that he's a BC!
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  #97  
Old 01-06-2013, 08:04 AM
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I know that in the working BC world, determining if a dog is a BC is done solely on working style. There were (are?) some dogs with beardie in their genetics that are still BCs because they work like a BC. BCs without "papers" can be registered on merit, which means that they've proven themselves on the trial field, even if they don't look a thing like what people think a BC should look like. Despite this, the breed does seem to show some common features, even without something as subjective as a typical breed ring standard. I find it all pretty cool!
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  #98  
Old 01-06-2013, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Shai View Post
Yeah there are several agility Aussies around here about whom I was on the fence...Aussie or BC...til they turned away on the course and I saw they were tailless lol. In their case it's the face shape, slighter build/smaller size, and less coat. Not out of range for an Aussie but toward on extreme, and well within the variation for BCs. For me, usually their head shape and ears give away one vs. the other if nothing else, but certainly not always. I have days where I'm half convinced the reason Aussies continue to be docked is to make them visually distinct from BCs

Then again I know a merle BC who was born stumpy-tailed...can't imagine how hard it is for the owners to convince people that he's a BC!
Honestly, I lucked out on Merlin being docked and being merle.

My dear friend has an aussie puppy around his age (that she imported, so he has a tail) and she is a black bi... convincing people that he is not a border collie is an ENDLESS BATTLE. lol I can hardly imagine!

Here is Merlin's family (minus the little guy in the back LOL) property of his breeder
That's his sister jumping for the cookie lol

and another group shot


When you can't see the tails. and even without all the FLOOF, you are looking at some big differences in looks and sizes.
All these dogs (or most rather) have their championships and are aussies through and through.. I just think they are a nice example of how, even within a single breeder, you can have a lot of differences and all well within standard
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Fran101 View Post
Honestly, I lucked out on Merlin being docked and being merle.

My dear friend has an aussie puppy around his age (that she imported, so he has a tail) and she is a black bi... convincing people that he is not a border collie is an ENDLESS BATTLE. lol I can hardly imagine!

Here is Merlin's family (minus the little guy in the back LOL) property of his breeder
That's his sister jumping for the cookie lol

and another group shot


When you can't see the tails. and even without all the FLOOF, you are looking at some big differences in looks and sizes.
All these dogs (or most rather) have their championships and are aussies through and through.. I just think they are a nice example of how, even within a single breeder, you can have a lot of differences and all well within standard
Your poor friend lol

And yeah while there are some individual differences, the Oracle Aussies couldn't really be mistake for anything else by anyone who know what an Aussie looks like, IMO. They all look very Aussie, tail or no.
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  #100  
Old 01-06-2013, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Shai View Post
Your poor friend lol

And yeah while there are some individual differences, the Oracle Aussies couldn't really be mistake for anything else by anyone who know what an Aussie looks like, IMO. They all look very Aussie, tail or no.
Maybe it's because I look at them all the time I see all these grand differences

and seriously.. I think she has started to kind of get worn down and stopped correcting people

Merlin gets "australian cattle dog" all the time.. but I think that's just mistaken breed names and not an actually look thing LOL he doesn't look very..cattledogy
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