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  #11  
Old 03-21-2006, 10:11 PM
makenzie71 makenzie71 is offline
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food is food. If it's not causing him any digestive problems then it'll be fine...all in all it's made of basically the same stuff but with a higher protein/meat content (cats are strict carnivores...dogs fair fine on an omnivourous or even vegetarian diet).
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  #12  
Old 03-21-2006, 10:20 PM
amymarley amymarley is offline
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unless it's onions, grapes or raisons....
and different food changes at rapid amounts can cause huge digestive problems.

Yes, canines were wild at one time and could consume various types of food, but they are now and have been domesticated throughout the years, just as humans have. They don't have the original digestive track they once had.
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  #13  
Old 03-21-2006, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by animalbiz
Yes, canines were wild at one time and could consume various types of food, but they are now and have been domesticated throughout the years, just as humans have. They don't have the original digestive track they once had.
Actually they do stil have the same digestive tract, which is the reason why they can (and most do) thrive on raw diets, but that doesn't mean they can't have health problems similar to those of humans, such as for example schnauzers can be prone to pancreatitis. Then there's also the variance of ratio of digestive tract to body size in different breeds (e.g. chihuahua vs. great dane), but nevertheless - anatomically they're still the same.
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  #14  
Old 03-23-2006, 11:38 PM
amymarley amymarley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordy
Actually they do stil have the same digestive tract, which is the reason why they can (and most do) thrive on raw diets, but that doesn't mean they can't have health problems similar to those of humans, such as for example schnauzers can be prone to pancreatitis. Then there's also the variance of ratio of digestive tract to body size in different breeds (e.g. chihuahua vs. great dane), but nevertheless - anatomically they're still the same.

You are the nutrition expert here, and I am not about to debate that at all... But from what I have learned (and please correct me if I am wrong, I am always willing to learn).

The above, raisons, onions, chocolate and grapes can be considered harmful.

Way back when... when canines had to scavenge for food, they ate what they could, because they were pack animals and had too. They had to hunt and eat to survive.....

Now, present times..... dogs vary... They have been breed, over bred, mix-bred and so on.... since then, they have not only had/have "new" medical problems/issues, they also have allergies, skin disorders, etc... EVEN WITH the new medical advances.....

Most vets tell most people, not to feed chicken bones, or certain types of food, for various reasons.

Dogs have adapted to "common" diets... and we still have to give them Pepto Bismol at times...cottage cheese, rice and boiled chicken. To me, this does not sound like "our" dogs at this time and date have the same digestive function as their long ago relatives.

Time is change and change can bring on different issues....

Then again, this is just my own opinion.
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  #15  
Old 03-24-2006, 12:36 AM
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The above, raisons, onions, chocolate and grapes can be considered harmful. Way back when... when canines had to scavenge for food, they ate what they could, because they were pack animals and had too. They had to hunt and eat to survive.....
You won't find chocolate "in the wild", it's a man-made substance. We also don't know how much grapes affect wild canids, and I doubt they would eat onions in any particularly high quantity over an extended period of time (which is necessary for heinz body anemia to develop). Not even a domestic dog will die from eating a grape or a piece of onion now and then.

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Now, present times..... dogs vary... They have been breed, over bred, mix-bred and so on.... since then, they have not only had/have "new" medical problems/issues, they also have allergies, skin disorders, etc... EVEN WITH the new medical advances.....
That is correct but many of these problems go back to inbreeding (or careless breeding practices), environmental pollution and the research and discovery that is simply not done on wild animals to the same degree. If wild wolves or dogs were fed the same unnatural diet as domestic dogs (e.g. processed, rendered stuff with chemical stabilizers and preservatives added) I am sure we would see similar problems occur.

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Most vets tell most people, not to feed chicken bones, or certain types of food, for various reasons.
Yes, mainly because (a) the people in the pet industry tell them so and that is all they hear and/or (b) dogs ingesting cooked bones which have a tremendous potential of causing damage.

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Dogs have adapted to "common" diets... and we still have to give them Pepto Bismol at times...cottage cheese, rice and boiled chicken. To me, this does not sound like "our" dogs at this time and date have the same digestive function as their long ago relatives.
What common diets? Keep in mind that domestic dogs have only been eating commercial foods on a large scale in the last 60 years or so. I'm also not sayig that some domestic dogs may not have a more sensitive digestive tract than wild ones, but the anatomy is still the same and so is the overall digestive capability.

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Time is change and change can bring on different issues....
True, but in terms of evolution you have to look at the big picture, and in that dogs have been domesticated for a time frame that on the grand scale is comparable to a blink of an eye. Look at humans and how their diet has changed over the past 15,000 years or so and the state of health we are in from eating inappropriate foods in inappropriate amounts that stand in no relation to the type of work we do all day compared to 15,000 years ago. If we could reverse some of that and could go back to less nutrient dense versions of veggies, roots and fruits, higher fiber wild cereal grains, lean, naturally raised meats and no refined sugar at all instead of McDonald's, Taco Bell and Pizza Hut along with gallons of softdrinks and coffee, we'd be healthier and not overweight. We know our bodies would still be able to handle that kind of diet.
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  #16  
Old 03-24-2006, 01:28 AM
amymarley amymarley is offline
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I still believe you to be the nutrition guru....

Just asking advice here as well as stating my observations... grapes, onions and chocolate a.ka. coco bean "is in the wild" and the major ingredient is in the bean, depending where you come from.

Dogs eat (prob. then and now) almost everything they can get at... they are little piggies! lol

I have heard the raw diet is great, I have heard that certain "designer foods" for dogs work well, I have even seen the crappy dog food given to dogs, and the dogs live a really long life and are in great health until the end.

I also agree with you, regarding human diets.... we are (almost) no better now than before... but us humans have free will to eat what we want. I have no sympathy for someone who eats 4 big macs a day...and then complains..

Back to dogs.... I think the "great" dog owner is going to research and find the best for their dog, but I don't think that canines have the "stomach" that their past canine realitive had in the past, partly, because there have been sooooo many NEW breeds since then, therefore, all the new hype on different dog foods, feeding, medications, allergies etc...

To me, and just my own opinion.... there is a huge difference in the gastro/digestive canine from before until "now."
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  #17  
Old 03-24-2006, 01:37 AM
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Our dogs will go absolutely nuts for the cat food if they can get near it.

I always thought the taurine levels in cat food were too high for dogs to have in great quanitities - this is not the case?
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  #18  
Old 03-24-2006, 03:42 PM
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Thanks for all of the great info.
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  #19  
Old 03-24-2006, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
grapes, onions and chocolate a.ka. coco bean "is in the wild" and the major ingredient is in the bean, depending where you come from.
Yes, but dogs "in the wild" aren't likely to eat cocoa beans off the bush because they are neither sweet nor pleasant tasting, and as I said, we don't know how much grapes affect wild canids, and I doubt they would eat onions in any particularly high quantity over an extended period of time.

Quote:
I have heard the raw diet is great, I have heard that certain "designer foods" for dogs work well, I have even seen the crappy dog food given to dogs, and the dogs live a really long life and are in great health until the end.
Yep, nutrition isn't everything, genetics play a large role too. Just like in humans. That still doesn't mean that those dogs eating poor quality food couldn't possibly have done better on better food. You won't know it until you try to find out.

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I don't think that canines have the "stomach" that their past canine realitive had in the past
Sure, you are entitled to your opinion, but that still doesn't match up with clinical findings and research.

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partly, because there have been sooooo many NEW breeds since then
...breeds which all have a common ancestor...

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therefore, all the new hype on different dog foods, feeding, medications, allergies etc...
Nope, actually most of that is just to make a buck - the pet industry is a multi billion dollar business in the U.S. alone.

Quote:
To me, and just my own opinion.... there is a huge difference in the gastro/digestive canine from before until "now."
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but there's no proof that actually indicates such a difference.
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  #20  
Old 03-27-2006, 06:11 PM
amymarley amymarley is offline
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Again, you are the guru here on nutrition... and I learned from you. I was just stating my opinion (thank you for allowing me too). So, therefore, there is no arguement or "beef" with you regarding this. I would love to get more into it and learn more....

There is just so much to learn, and I hear so much different "stuff" from the distributors that it makes my mind crazy. I know, the majority is to market and make money, but nutrion, proper nutrion is very complex. Again, I would love to dive into in more, and prob. will when I have time. Thanks for responding.
Amy
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