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  #71  
Old 01-01-2013, 02:13 AM
vandog vandog is offline
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Originally Posted by SaraB View Post
We know you have had trouble selling the last two puppies of your litter, I find it very odd that this has corresponded with you joining multiple groups recently and I hope you are not giving false information to try to place your dogs. I would hate for someone who really doesn't like barking to end up with a dog that has a tendency to bark.
Generally, I like to pretend that you and your co-hort aren't on my radar, because I don't like to imagine the fact that Richie had to kill at least two puppies from your dogs own litters so that you could get what you could want. I think I'd done a good job finding my next potential K/Coolie breeder in Australia - he is really nice, does not do merle to merle anymore, and has proven dogs.

I don't think what happened with Chessie is considered "trouble selling" but alas, we all have our own definitions of that. I will get crabby by your "trouble selling" bit though, and here is why:
- Shawn does not place puppies by color/looks
- Shawn does not place puppies before temperament can be evaluated
All of these things contribute to puppies sometime being unsold right at eight weeks (and I know many breeders of many breeds who have been in this boat). I talked to three different Avalon owners personally who purchased puppies over the span of several years and they all said they got what they wanted... when I pressed, I got the same response. Color should absolutely be a factor in a decision, yes, but Shawn's screening process prevents temperament mismatches which is much more serious than a puppy of the wrong color
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  #72  
Old 01-01-2013, 02:30 AM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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Barking when excited is... to be expected I would think. Especially with a puppy/young dog of any bred.
My boxer does not bark when excited. He rarely barks, ever.

My collie is an entirely different story. Collies are also barky dogs for the most part - again, you will find quiet collies, and some lines may tend to be barkier than others, but as a whole collies bark. You can train it out to a degree - he doesn't bark when he's working, and he doesn't often bark just to hear himself bark, but he is more apt to bark when he's out chasing birds/squirrels, playing, excited, etc. To me, a dog that barks when they get excited is somewhere on the "barky scale" (yeah, I just now made that up lol) because there are dogs that really just...don't bark. That doesn't mean they're a bad dog. Some people like dogs that bark a lot, even. I don't care much for barky dogs, but I do like collies and will probably always have one. I will probably have a koolie some day as well. I like herding dogs. Herding dogs tend to bark. I can deal with it even if I'm not a fan of barking.
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  #73  
Old 01-01-2013, 02:59 AM
JessLough JessLough is offline
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I'm just popping in to say, my herding breed mutt barks. A Lot. Enough that we no longer notice when other loud things are happening... ie the house next door is burning down and there are many sirens.

It's not from lack of trying. LOL
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  #74  
Old 01-01-2013, 03:27 AM
NinaB NinaB is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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Originally Posted by avaloncoolies View Post
I have to admit being a bit taken back by this all and wish to ask if my "not certifying" my dogs is a pre requisite to being a part of this forum then I will make small and not be a bother anymore...I simply have heard about this forum from people in common and the coolie talk on it and thought my presence would be welcome because your information here is pretty one sided with nothing to compare to...judgements are being made on the basis of 2 young girls experience with what?....3 coolies in total (all from the same kennel) and yes you did inquire about acquiring a AValon Pup thru facebook sara, and we never got to the questionaire or contract because i made it clear i would not let a pup go on breeding contract after what CCC did with Barcoo...and you know it very well...hence why you went with a breeder that doesnt have a contract....and merle to merle breeding is my fight to fight as certifying is yours...and all i have ever asked is that be respected....people want to certify their dogs, GO FOR IT!! Hell please anyone with a Avalon pup is more then welcome to it as well....no issues there but i reserve the right to not send the xrays in and to not certify my dogs if i want to....the same way people wanting to breed merle to merle can go right ahead and do it, i just choose not to associate with them....or people that have their dogs on chains and breed them on chains and let 2 or 3 pups pass from being squished by moms on chains, or dont do puppy testing, or dont have breeding contracts, or let pups go before min 8 weeks, or breeders that breed young dogs, or aggressive dogs, or people that sell whatever pup to first come first serve....i simply dont associate with them
I have found these two young girls with a mere three Australian Koolies between them to be quite well informed, responsible, intelligent, courteous, and respectful. More than I can say for some, Shawn.

I lost respect for you very early on in my Coolie experience which began a mere 18 months ago when I aquired my Coolie pup. My breeder informed us, her facebook followers, that she would no longer be breeding Coolies. Of course I was devastated because I was already so in love with the breed and knew I'd want another at some point. We were told that you would be the go to breeder in North America. It was for that reason I joined your facebook group and was immediately faced with a page full of your ranting about contracts and threats of neutering pups before they are shipped to their new homes and on it went. Totally unprofessional and unreasonable and I knew right then and there that I'd never look to you for a Coolie puppy. Had I not been instantly turned off by your unprofessionalism I certainly would have laughed at your contract and things would have ended before they began.

My breeder did not do testing either which wasn't a big deal to me at the time. I had no intention to breed. I was looking for a working dog..unspoiled by breeding to show standards. I wanted a dog who would excel in search and rescue, and agility and fit in with my active life style which focused on my dogs. I was lucky. My Coolie is amazing and healthy. Three of her siblings and their active families however were not so lucky. Two of those puppies were purchased (and marketed) as prospective agility competitors. Unfortunately, that breeder...my pup's breeder, does not acknowledge this as a problem and blames the owners of her puppies for causing the pups to have hip dysplasia. This is the breeder from which you obtained one of your lines Shawn. Now, the difference between you and these two young girls (Lindsey and Sara) who intend to breed, is that they are willing to start off on the right foot and do the testing and documenting that needs to start with someone. After going through what I've gone through for the last several months...basically living in fear that my pup would also be afflicted...I, for one, will wait for my next Koolie puppy. While I understand that testing does not eliminate all health issues and that early on in the documentation process there may be unforeseen health issues that show up, I fully respect Lindsey and Sara for taking this important step and standing up to breeders like you who choose to breed blindly. I suppose, being one of only three breeders (known to me at least) in North America you can get by with that attitude. I'm thinking that will change before long.
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  #75  
Old 01-01-2013, 10:09 AM
stardogs stardogs is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2009
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I looked seriously at C/Koolies for awhile but while the lack of titling/health testing bummed me out, it wasn't the reason I didn't get one....once I started looking around, the arguing and bashing in the Koolie world discouraged me from my desire to be a part if it.
Yep. I already have the breeds I will have for the rest of my life and there's certainly some nastiness in every breed, but the bashing from all sides of the K/Coolie breed is ridiculous for such a new breed!
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  #76  
Old 01-01-2013, 10:47 AM
SaraB SaraB is offline
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Originally Posted by stardogs View Post
Yep. I already have the breeds I will have for the rest of my life and there's certainly some nastiness in every breed, but the bashing from all sides of the K/Coolie breed is ridiculous for such a new breed!
You are right, it is ridiculous. I had hoped to be able to work together with the current breeders in North America. However was met with hostility before my koolie even touched the ground. I try to be honest and respectful to everyone ne when someone comes to me for information about this breed. And yes, that does mean I have recommended Avalon to some people and other breeders to other people. The people that come to me seem to share the same feeling for health testing so it's frustrating not being able to point them in a good direction.
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  #77  
Old 01-01-2013, 11:11 AM
vandog vandog is offline
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Originally Posted by JessLough View Post
I'm just popping in to say, my herding breed mutt barks. A Lot. Enough that we no longer notice when other loud things are happening... ie the house next door is burning down and there are many sirens.

It's not from lack of trying. LOL
Right. Apparently quiet herding dogs are a novelty and all of the ones I've met are just strange Especially my own two, which live in a apartment.

As for the breed fighting, yes it's bad, but that behavior exists in all breeds. It is much more apparent in some breeds than others. Do I agree that health testing needs to become a priority? Absolutely! But the ethics that occur in other decisions regarding this breed that are just as bad, if not worse.
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  #78  
Old 01-01-2013, 11:16 AM
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Dizzy Dizzy is online now
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This is stupid.... You're all on the same side and quibbling over a load of rubbish.

Why does this happen is some breeds? It's so ridiculous to read. You should all meet up and walk the dogs together and you might all realise you're all pretty much the same and want the same things.

Stupid.
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  #79  
Old 01-01-2013, 11:28 AM
SaraB SaraB is offline
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Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
This is stupid.... You're all on the same side and quibbling over a load of rubbish.

Why does this happen is some breeds? It's so ridiculous to read. You should all meet up and walk the dogs together and you might all realise you're all pretty much the same and want the same things.

Stupid.
Again, agreed. This is a breed with such a small population where we are, nothing can be gained from squabbling, it will and already has actually hurt the breed. Look at all of the fantastic owners that are turned away again and again from this?

I'm done fighting, Shawn, health test or don't. I really don't care but please stop bashing Linds and I for crimes we haven't or have no intentions of committing. You don't like to be picked apart and neither do we. This is the last I will say on the subject, you can pm me if you would like to set aside our differences.
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  #80  
Old 01-01-2013, 11:36 AM
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Dizzy Dizzy is online now
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I've seen this in a breed over here. You know what happened? The WHOLE thing fell apart. Literally at the seams. There was no breed, because everyone divided into camps, and it was a joke.
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