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  #61  
Old 12-31-2012, 10:41 PM
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adojrts adojrts is offline
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Health testing has nothing to do with breed standards, registrations or lack off, breed clubs or whether a dog/breed is in a kennel club or not. This is the 21st century and responsible breeders regardless of whether they have working dogs or show dogs, if they are truely breeding to better their dogs, then they should be doing all the testing that they can. It isn't about money, it isn't about titles and ribbons, it is about doing right by your breed or dog first and foremost and 2nd to the people that trust you enough to purchase.
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  #62  
Old 12-31-2012, 10:43 PM
SaraB SaraB is offline
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Originally Posted by avaloncoolies View Post
I can if youd like....and if the timing was after you comitted to a pup from Ritchie and your lack of persuit of a pup from me came after our discussion over Avalon not selling pups under breeding contracts then I can only think you were looking to create a breeding pair .... and so my beeding practices or lack of certification was not a problem then for you
I contacted you in hopes of eventually using one of your dogs as a stud, learned about your lack of health testing and titles on your dogs and moved on. Never wanted a puppy.
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  #63  
Old 12-31-2012, 10:50 PM
SaraB SaraB is offline
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Nice post Linds, I still can't get over her assumption that we were planning to breed merle to merle without even asking.
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  #64  
Old 12-31-2012, 11:12 PM
avaloncoolies avaloncoolies is offline
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alright here is my theory...and i am on my way out for New Years Eve right now, so I will see if i am banned in the New Year...
I think we can say we know i do not certify...ok..sorry but i dont, you can be ok with that or not, i mean sara and lindsey were ok with it to bring their k/coolies of choice....so i think this is a distraction from some of the other questions out there...how loud are they? what kennels do your coolies come from? are solids rare in australia? why the differences in coat? why the differences in name (and it is more then just "breeder preference")
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  #65  
Old 12-31-2012, 11:13 PM
avaloncoolies avaloncoolies is offline
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just some of the questions forgotten here...and maybe Sara and Lindsey dont like those questions....
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  #66  
Old 12-31-2012, 11:23 PM
SaraB SaraB is offline
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Originally Posted by avaloncoolies View Post
alright here is my theory...and i am on my way out for New Years Eve right now, so I will see if i am banned in the New Year...
I think we can say we know i do not certify...ok..sorry but i dont, you can be ok with that or not, i mean sara and lindsey were ok with it to bring their k/coolies of choice....so i think this is a distraction from some of the other questions out there...how loud are they? what kennels do your coolies come from? are solids rare in australia? why the differences in coat? why the differences in name (and it is more then just "breeder preference")
Zinga is loud, we have been working on teaching her a quiet cue and also to show her frustration in other ways. She has a natural tendency to bark when frustrated, playing, excited and in other stimulating situations. She does not really alert bark. I do not like barking and have worked hard on limiting it as much as I can.

Zinga is from Toolalla Koolies, bred by Richie out of Holly and Loco. Yes, a very closely linebred litter which was bred merle to merle. I trust Richie with his 40+ years of experience and felt the pros of his dogs outweighed what I feel to be cons in his breeding program. I talked to many people with his dogs that excel in the sports I am currently training Zinga in.

Solids are not rare, however, breeding merle to merle is quite prominent. For a long time in the breeds history, solids were culled or labeled as kelpies instead of believed to be koolies. This however is not the case now.

I don't know why the difference in coat, I do know that breeders of koolies along with other herding breeds tend to breed for working ability above anything else, rarely focusing on looks. So I can imagine it was a breeder preference. I know I prefer the short coat koolies.

The differences in the name is because the breed is thought to have originated in German and then was imported into Australia. In the early writings found about this breed, they are labeled as German Coolies, most likely from a weird pronunciation of collie. Because the Australian Koolie Club felt that the breed developed more in their country and to give it an identity to reflect that they decided to opt for the other name, Australian Koolies. According to the majority of breeders in Australia, regardless of club affiliation, there is no difference in German Coolies and Australian Koolies.

Have I proved myself worthy of owning this breed now? I am new to this breed, I plan on learning and absorbing everything I can from a large variety of people involved before I ever plan on breeding. So I'm not really sure what you are trying to prove.

Can you please answer the questions the other forums members have asked? Specifically about the hip dysplasia in your dogs?

ETA: I better add something about Zip before you assume the worst. Zip Tie is coming from Kylie, he is bred from Toolalla Skandal and Lanes Creek Shake N'Shiva. Yes, Skandal shares a similar parent with Zinga, however, calculated out the inbreeding coeffecient will be 7%, which I feel is an ok number. I also feel that I will limit the chance of any hereditary health issues by properly screening for those that I can. I will not breed if either dog develops any health or behavioral problems. I will not breed if I don't have a reason too, or if I don't think the puppies would be an asset to the future generations. As far as if Zip barks? I heard he's already pretty darn vocal.
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  #67  
Old 12-31-2012, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avaloncoolies View Post
alright here is my theory...and i am on my way out for New Years Eve right now, so I will see if i am banned in the New Year...
I think we can say we know i do not certify...ok..sorry but i dont, you can be ok with that or not, i mean sara and lindsey were ok with it to bring their k/coolies of choice....so i think this is a distraction from some of the other questions out there...how loud are they? what kennels do your coolies come from? are solids rare in australia? why the differences in coat? why the differences in name (and it is more then just "breeder preference")
Well, lets start at the beginning. You accused Sara and Linds of attacking you, that is actually laughable. Of all the flaming and attacks that happen on this forum, I don't recall either of them being involved. Not their style.
Others in the this thread have made statements or asked questions, which you seem to ignore while you focus on Sara and Linds.
Now I am not a Koolie owner and for months there has been many discussions about Koolies on this forum. Sara and Linds were very forthcoming in the fact that no it is sadly not common for breeders of these dogs to do health testing. But they have also made it very clear that it had to start somewhere and that their attempts to find breeders that tested had failed. So the next best thing was to get the dogs they desired, test them, compete with them and prove them and then MAYBE breed them. And even I whom just scims over threads, understood that they were both against merle to merle breedings because that topic has been talked about in great depth concerning other breeds.
So I don't know why the need is there to be so focused on as you put it ' these very young girls'. That would imply that they are too young or somehow adolescent. They are however educated and keen and I suspect that they are going to do wonderful things with their dogs (they already have for that matter) and they will do right by the breed. And in the future, if I were to want a Koolie or need to recommend a breeder? I know that both these young ladies would be at the top of the list.
So, instead of attacking and making veiled comments about them, how about addressing others that asked questions?
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  #68  
Old 12-31-2012, 11:35 PM
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FG167 FG167 is offline
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I looked seriously at C/Koolies for awhile but while the lack of titling/health testing bummed me out, it wasn't the reason I didn't get one. The reason I went Kelpie (out of un health tested parents), was because once I started looking around, the arguing and bashing in the Koolie world discouraged me from my desire to be a part if it. The conformation Lab world is much the same and the reason I turned to other breeds (luckily it turns out since herders suit me SO much better!), I did not want to get sucked into those hurt feelings and that heartache again. I would still like to own one someday, but for now, Limit is Koolie enough for me.

I also want to state that when I approached Linds for more breeder info, Avalon was on the list to check out. It was not thru anything that her or Sara said that turned me off of the breed at all.
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  #69  
Old 12-31-2012, 11:47 PM
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Oops one other random thing, I also refuse to sign force neuter contracts. So far, even breeders that normally enforce them have expressed understanding and will cut the limited to full registration for me. Without a CLOSE relationship, I do not share my dogs' registration with anyone. Hence, once I buy them, I expect to be able to do what I want with them. Other things that sent me from the breed.

The loudness was not one. With 6 herding breeds in the house, barking is expected lol
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  #70  
Old 01-01-2013, 01:02 AM
vandog vandog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NinaB View Post
My Coolie is LOUD when she is excited and there is no quieting her no matter what I try and it has nothing to do with how she was raised! I am extremely intolerant of inappropriate barking and raise all my dogs not to bark unless someone approaches our property. We back up to a forest preserve so there are always people and dogs going by. My Coolie is the only one of my dogs who has to be reminded almost daily that barking at those people (and squirrels) is inappropriate. The others never need reminding. And when we get to the pool for a swim date or get to the trail for a scooter run...forget it. I don't even try anymore. I just grit my teeth, smile, and get things moving along as quickly as possible. If there was one thing I could change about Rue, that would be it. Otherwise she is perfect

When she is playing ball or frisbee, working, or interacting in any way she is totally quiet. She will even remain on a down stay for any length of time while I play with one one of my other dogs right in front of her...perfectly quiet. While she is swimming...quiet. Running the bike or scooter..quiet (after the initial several hundred feet). Once she's in the "game" she's okay. Otherwise wear the plugs!
I don't know what you want me to say... these dogs barked a few times while playing Chuck It but they certainly knew what "Quiet" met.
Barking when excited is... to be expected I would think. Especially with a puppy/young dog of any bred. But these dogs seemed to understand (C/Kollie) that quiet met quiet. Hence my above comment.
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