Hello from Canada!!

[CharlieDog]

Originally Posted by stardogs

What Shai said.

I was watching the thread from the get go, and tbh, was hoping Avalon would bring another dimension to the C/Koolie population on the board. She's very correct that we are only seeing Koolies from one breeder and thus may not be getting the full picture of the breed as a whole and with the heavy Koolie-want on Chaz recently, different perspectives are always a good thing.

When she started acting evasive and defensive, I initially brushed it off as part of the C/Koolie faction issues, but when it continued despite additional information provided on the costs of OFA'ing xrays already taken and escalated to her deriding Linds and Sara on something as ridiculous as age, she lost me and really has made me wonder if she's truly hiding some things.

Pretty much this. I also don't have a horse in this race, and while I considered C/Koolies before, I can also now say I definitely won't be going to Avalon if/when the time comes. Just the way it is. Show your ass on a forum, can't debate properly, ect and that's it for you. I don't care about the most stellar breeding practices in the world (let alone substandard), if you're not a nice person, it's not happening.

Every single breeder on Chaz has been questioned intensively. Those that passed muster are left alone. Even some who don't do certain things but have a reason (a REAL VALID one) are left alone for the most part. It's how things work here.

Having a hissy fit over certifications is ridiculous, especially considering you *say* you x-ray. I think that's probably a big fat lie myself because who goes to the trouble to pay for x-rays and then doesn't pay the 40 dollars to submit them? Or are you saying your vet is magical and can "see" the hips without taking an xray? Because that's even dumber.

This whole thread from Avalons side has been ridiculous and a slander/name calling fest.

And as far as what this other breeder in Aus is doing, she's obviously setting up a strawman. Richie (apparently) is coming under fire for the same things she is, only he's not even here to defend himself. Culling of puppies and dogs on chains is pretty standard practice if you're an actual working rancher, and it sounds like he is, plus he's 70. Avalon is 33 by her own admission. I know I wouldn't be asking my 70 year old grandmother to change ANYTHING she did, because obviously that's what's working for her (and she'd probably tell me whatever I was doing was stupid anyway)

The whole thing is ridiculous.

[sassafras]

Originally Posted by Dizzy

And tbe hypocrisy is one breeder is off Scot free because they're old and won't change their ways (and you can hardly grill someone you've bought several dogs off right?), yet Avalon is grilled just cos. When tgeyve already said they hold her in high regard. Doesn't make sense to me.

So Avalon cant call them young, but Richie gets away with blue murder because he's an old rancher?

Eh?

Who's letting anyone get away with blue murder? The merle-merle thing and culling puppies have been hashed out before. If Richie were here I'm sure people would be asking him some pretty harsh questions... but he's not. It appears to me that Sara and Linds want to do better in the future... but they have to work with what is already existing.

Also, much of my problem comes from how Avalon has apparently made her judgments via some Mulderesque leaps of logic about Linds and Sara's motivations and knowledge in this breed based on misinformation/miscommunication (at best) or lies and half-truths (at worst), responds to questions with deflection, dismissal, and personal attacks, and has yet to provide any proof of her accusations against Linds in particular.

[Sit Stay]

That was my interpretation, anyways, Dizzy! We are of course all free to draw our own

I don't expect everyone to write like an English major but paragraphs, proper sentence structure etc is appreciated when you're trying to come across as an experienced, knowledgeable person. You're right though, it does not come naturally or easily to everyone!

(I think you write well, by the way!)

[Emily]

Frankly, I get the impression that Shawn knew Sara and Lindsey were here. I get the impression she thought she could "expose" them, and present herself as the OMG ultimate Koolie expert, and that Chaz would more or less fall a her feet.

The stuff she's saying is entirely fabricated, regarding her coorespondence with them. And I think that says a lot right there.

I don't buy that she just innocently wandered by because she heard people on here like Koolies. Sorry. I think she had a mission that didn't go as planned and now she's pitching a fit.

All that said, Shawn, as transparent as I find your motives for being here, if you were to dust yourself off and behave like a gracious adult from this point forward, the forum would likely accept you. It's that kind of a place.

[Aleron]

What Emily said, totally.

If you are a breeder, you are making choices about what direction to take your breeding program, what dogs to use, etc. These are your choices to make and your choice to do as you see fit. If you aren't health testing, just said "I don't health test and this is why..." when asked. I can respect someone who makes choices, sticks by their choices and is totally upfront and honest about them. Even if they aren't choices I would make or agree with. I can respect that they are at least honest and that they have their reasons for what they do. To me, honesty is huge when it comes to breeders. I think a lot of others feel that way too.

OTOH I personally find it really shady when a breeder makes choices and then when asked about those choices isn't able to be totally honest about them, tries to change the subject or gets really defensive. To me, that makes it seem as though the breeder themselves thinks they aren't doing the right thing. If you're going to do something, do it and be totally open about it. If you can't be totally open about it, you probably shouldn't be doing it in the first place.

No one said breeders who post here have to health test or have to follow certain standards. But be honest and upfront, don't try to turn questions directed at your practices into "Look! Look what these other people do! They're worse than me!". Again, that just makes it seem as though you don't believe you are doing the right thing. And if you don't believe you are doing the right thing, how is anyone supposed to respect you as a breeder?

Originally Posted by Emily

All that said, Shawn, as transparent as I find your motives for being here, if you were to dust yourself off and behave like a gracious adult from this point forward, the forum would likely accept you. It's that kind of a place.

And I thought this could use repeating.

[MandyPug]

I'm curious if anyone else has noticed that things were relatively peaceful until a member who has not been very interested in Koolies or even terribly strict about their health testing views was the one to initially pose the question? Or the fact that the person who posed the question has not been back to reply at all in this thread?

I'm honestly curious if anyone else has noticed this because it stands out to me.

[Shai]

Originally Posted by MandyPug

I'm curious if anyone else has noticed that things were relatively peaceful until a member who has not been very interested in Koolies or even terribly strict about their health testing views was the one to initially pose the question? Or the fact that the person who posed the question has not been back to reply at all in this thread?

I'm honestly curious if anyone else has noticed this because it stands out to me.

I didn't notice, to be honest, probably because I don't know everyone's stance on health testing and related topics. That said, I don't think anyone is claiming that Avalon was the only person to be shown in a...less than positive light in this drama. Drama is rarely so precise.

[Lyzelle]

I've been reading. I don't know much about C/Koolies so I don't have much to add. I just listen and learn. I stated in another thread I was interested in the breed, but it depends entirely on what Linds and Sara do with the breed. Because I can't jump on the no health testing and merle to merle train. Although I am having similar issues in my own breed, thus why I am trying to find another. But obviously learning anything from Avalon was a bust.

[eddieq]

I can't believe that I have to do this in an INTRO thread, but here it is.

If you (ubiquitous "you") have an issue with another member, take it to PM or off the board. Nothing wrong with differing opinions and even outright dislike of each other. Everyone has been fairly respectful in this thread and we appreciate that.

As far as accusations being thrown around - provide evidence or keep it to yourself. That goes for everybody.

Thanks!

[Kootenay]

I didn't get all the way through this thread, what a headache... just popping in here to say that I have spent a great deal of time with an Avalon Coolie (he belongs to my best friend and I do "daycare" for him when she works, so he's basically like my 3rd dog) and he is a FANTASTIC dog! He is nearly silent (like really, hardly ever barks, though he has a lovely "rooo" that he does), not at ALL a nutcase, in fact he is generally very mellow and cuddly. He can absolutely turn on his drive when training or out and about, but he is a very sane dog. It seemed like some people here were accusing Shawn of false advertising, but from my experience with the pup from her, he's exactly as she says her dogs are. Just had to say it!