Well Let Down Hocks

In reading through the Chow Chow illustrated standard, I notice that this breed calls for well let down hocks.

Now knowing that the Chow Chow is traditionally a breed with little to no turn of stifle or hock angulation, I found this strange, since Gwinnywillow has stated that well let down hocks means extreme turn of stifle with the lower thigh almost parallel to the ground.

as example:

Originally Posted by Gwinnywillow
and the dog is not at all let down on hock. The rise of the hind leg goes straight up from the hock.

Originally Posted by Gwinnywillow
She is gorgeous! But I wonder if there is any such thing any more as a dog "well let down in hock".......which to clear up the mystery means that the bone running from the hock to the stifle is almost horizontal to the ground before starting the upturn.

According, however, to Gilbert-Brown "K9 Structure and Terminology" , well let down hocks are described as:

"Hocks, well let-down. Hock joints close to the ground. Short hocks
improve endurance."

The chow glossary in the Illustrated Standard defines it as:

Well let down: Having short hocks (metatarsals).

I think this is a serious error that could wrongly influence many people who are here trying to learn.

Well let down hocks means SHORT metatarsals, with the hock joint close to the ground.

[motherofmany]

and perpendicular to the ground at least in my former breed

[Gwinnywillow]

Originally Posted by RedyreRottweilers

In reading through the Chow Chow illustrated standard, I notice that this breed calls for well let down hocks.

Now knowing that the Chow Chow is traditionally a breed with little to no turn of stifle or hock angulation, I found this strange, since Gwinnywillow has stated that well let down hocks means extreme turn of stifle with the lower thigh almost parallel to the ground.

as example:



According, however, to Gilbert-Brown "K9 Structure and Terminology" , well let down hocks are described as:

"Hocks, well let-down. Hock joints close to the ground. Short hocks
improve endurance."

The chow glossary in the Illustrated Standard defines it as:

Well let down: Having short hocks (metatarsals).

I think this is a serious error that could wrongly influence many people who are here trying to learn.

Well let down hocks means SHORT metatarsals, with the hock joint close to the ground.

AHHHHH HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!! Thank you Red--at last you prove my point. A total lack of comprehension of the written word!!!!!!! Even tho you yourself quote it correctly, you completely miss the entire point!!

Ok, enough jubilation. Well let down hock has nothing to do with "Let down on hock". A dog that is well let down on hock is a distinctly different entity. I will be delighted to stand aside to your wisdom, and let you try to find out what it means. It will be a learning experience for you! Have fun. Oh, and we will forget that I already explained in detail what it means in another thread,

[Gwinnywillow]

And if ya note....inspite of the ying and yang we are all managing to learn a little bit here and there!!!!! Things that are hammered out tend to get stuck better in our brains.

[motherofmany]

"Hocks well let down" refers to short rear "pasterns" measured from the point of "hock" to the ground, the shorter the metatarsus, and the more acute the "hock" joint angle, the more let down the "hocks" are.

There is a relationship between "bend of stifle" and "let down of hock". The straighter the "stifle" the longer the back "pastern" and the less "let down of hock".

But the two expressions are used synonymously, Gwinny. Straight "stifle" requires long "pastern"=poorly let down "hock" (meaning long "hock") Proper angulation allows proper short "pastern" = "well let down hock" or "hock well let down."

You may think that the placement of modifiers intends different meanings, but it doesn't.

My bitch does not have a lot of turn of stifle, yet she is well let down in hock.

I have another bitch who has a lot of stifle turn, however, she is not well let down in the hock.

The Chow Chow standard also asks for well let down hocks, and they are classicly straight in stifle with very little hock angulation.

Well let down hocks does not mean that the lower thigh is nearly perpendicular to the ground. Well let down hocks means that the hock joint is close to the ground. The metatarsals are short in well let down hocks.

As M O M states, well let down hocks means SHORT metatarsals, with the hock joint being close to the ground. Many times this is combined with a well turned stifle, but not always, and the stifle does not have to be well turned for a dog to be well let down on hocks.

There are people here who are trying to learn, and well let down hocks has little to do with turn of stifle.

The chow chow is a prime example of that.

JMO as always.

[Gwinnywillow]

Originally Posted by motherofmany

"Hocks well let down" refers to short rear "pasterns" measured from the point of "hock" to the ground, the shorter the metatarsus, and the more acute the "hock" joint angle, the more let down the "hocks" are.

There is a relationship between "bend of stifle" and "let down of hock". The straighter the "stifle" the longer the back "pastern" and the less "let down of hock".

But the two expressions are used synonymously, Gwinny. Straight "stifle" requires long "pastern"=poorly let down "hock" (meaning long "hock") Proper angulation allows proper short "pastern" = "well let down hock" or "hock well let down."

You may think that the placement of modifiers intends different meanings, but it doesn't.

Well let down on hock refers to a dog who is "seated" into his rear. That is MY description. With a dog with proper rear angulation, as say a Dobe, the bone from the hock will run almost parallel to the ground before joining to the lower leg. You seldom see it any more, since the rear angulation of many breeds has gone out the same window as the front angulation.

I have a picture of S.F. Clansman somewhere that illustrates it to a certain degree. Or, come to think of it, I have a picture of the back end of one of my whippets I will find that will show what _I_ picture as being "well let down on hock".

[Gwinnywillow]

Ignore the Manchester clamped onto the hock.

[Zoom]

"mmm, chew toy!"

So Gwinny is saying that a well let down hock almost forms a 90 degree angle at the joint and everyone else is saying it just means the hock is close to the ground. Am I summerizing this correctly?

Yes.

And all definitions to be found define a well let down hock as a hock with short metatarsals with the hock close to the ground.

A chow chow would NEVER have a hock that has such angles, and their standard not only calls for a well let down hock, they define it in their glossary of the illustrated standard.

Well let down hock means a hock close to the ground and short metatarsals.

It has NOTHING to do with the angulation of the hock joint.

Gwinnywillow, your PERSONAL definition of well let down hocks is incorrect.

Period.