Angulation: What IS it? What is correct?

What bones are involved in the front angulation of the dog?

What layback of shoulder is correct in your breed?

How important is the upper arm in shoulder construction?

What bones are involved in rear angulation in dogs?

How does rear angulation affect gait and movement?

Why is a short metatarsus in the rear desireable in a working dog?

[Dizzy]

Are you asking and wanting to know answers, or setting questions to mark?

Originally Posted by RedyreRottweilers

What bones are involved in the front angulation of the dog?

What layback of shoulder is correct in your breed?

How important is the upper arm in shoulder construction?

What bones are involved in rear angulation in dogs?

How does rear angulation affect gait and movement?

Why is a short metatarsus in the rear desireable in a working dog?

1) the Scapula and the humerus (shoulder blade and upper arm)

2) 45 degrees is most desireable

3) It is perhaps THE most important aspect of shoulder angulation. The length of the upper arm determines the reach and range of motion of the front.

4) I will leave this for others to answer, I know the answers but don't want to spoil it for others.

5) same as #4

6) same as #4

[motherofmany]

1. Scapula, humerus

2. 45 degrees

3. Good length of upper arm is essential and the distance between from whithers to point of shoulder and from point of shoulder to elbow should be roughly equidistant.

4. pelvis, femur, fibula/tibia, tarsus

5. Without good angulation, one won't see proper reach and drive (mind you, I believe the femur should be the longest bone on the body NOT the tibia but I did notice when looking at the illustrated GSD standard that they clearly look for a longer lower thigh than upper thigh which explains the extreme angulation. In shelties, one should be able to fold the rear leg up tight and have the hock touch the ischium, how 'bout Rotties, Red?) or single track gait.

6. In my experience (which I will admit is limited) too long a tibia in proportion to the femur will result in long hocks (which also tend to be sickle hocks) resulting in the dog lacking rear extension and having reduced "driving power." They tend to "hock out" and/or have a bouncing, choppy gait that tilts the from side to side. So, short hocks give a dog that nice, just barely ground clearing reach with a corresponding smooth and powerful drive that is desirable in a working breed and tend to correspond with correct angulation and proportion in the stifle.

[JennSLK]

Wow, I dont know any of the answers but Im learning ALOT

Jenn, if you are showing dogs, or you have any idea of WANTING to show dogs, you should know all of this.

I would strongly urge you to take a structure and movement seminar as soon as you can.

There is also quite a bit of good reading material out there. I would recommend Rachel Page Elliot's book/video, DOG STEPS.

[JennSLK]

I know. Im going to order some books and Dan said he would work with me during the show next weekend.

There is so much to know, it's kina overwellming.

But personally I think im taking the right step by getting a mentor. Someone who is letting me take his dogs to handling clases that have profesional handlers teaching us how to handle dogs in the ring.

Handling class is an excellent place to start, and asking the questions in this post of your instructor would also be good. Ask them to point out what is correct and incorrect on the dog you are training.

[motherofmany]

Jenn, you might find this helpful

http://www.dpca.org/JEC/illustrated_standard.htm

I am a big believer is getting a copy of an illustrated standard endorsed the the breed club. When you can see what is meant by a description, it helps.

It is also essential to get your hands on as many dogs as you can, asking the owner questions as you go.

I can well remember going around shows with my mentor and learning by touch what is correct. I got to the point where I was "feeling" dogs in my sleep! But your mind better remembers what your tactile senses imprint.

And there is always more to learn. I remember standing by as a breeder judge in my breed felt the head of a young dog that a loooooong time breeder and exhibitor brought to her and her surprise as she felt a dog whose stop was flat at the zygomatic arch (difficult to find and maintain in shelties) She learned something right then and there, because she never thought she "knew it all" and everyone will be better for that. (btw, I had never had my hands on a dog with as exquisite a headpiece as that dog and all my fumble feeling after that was seeking similar excellence from that point on)

I'll never breed again, because I don't feel I can do justice to a breed with my limited resources, but I still love to see and feel a well put together dog

[JennSLK]

OMG thanks MotherofMany. I am going to print it off and it will become my bible. Thank you so much.

Dont worry, I will never become one of those who thinks they know everything.