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  #41  
Old 12-13-2012, 01:48 PM
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You can believe this or not, but here's some information on the owners of snopes:

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The snopes.com web site is (and always has been) a completely independent, self-sufficient entity wholly owned by its operators, Barbara and David Mikkelson, and funded through advertising revenues. Neither the site nor its operators has ever received monies from (or been engaged in any business or editorial relationship with), any sponsor, investor, partner, political party, religious group, business organization, government agency, or any other outside group or organization.

Barbara Mikkelson is a Canadian citizen and as such cannot vote in U.S. elections, register an affiliation with a U.S. political party, or donate to any U.S. political campaign or candidate. David Mikkelson is an American citizen whose participation in U.S. politics has never extended beyond periodically exercising his civic duty at the ballot box. As FactCheck confirmed in April 2009, David is a registered independent who has never donated to, or worked on behalf of, any political campaign or party. The Mikkelsons are wholly apolitical, vastly preferring their quiet scholarly lives in the company of their cats to any political considerations.
http://www.snopes.com/info/aboutus.asp
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  #42  
Old 12-13-2012, 01:50 PM
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And there seriously are plenty of debunked rumors on both sides of the political spectrum, not just liberal candidates or issues.

ETA: And they post all their sources, so if you don't believe them you can always go do some light reading for yourself.
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  #43  
Old 12-13-2012, 02:25 PM
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Snopes is mostly correct IF they agree with you. Snopes and their sources are suspect by many, not just me. The owners are huge supporters of Obama. I don't have a lot of time to dig but here are a couple of examples of liberal slant.

Please compare:
*
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ayers.asp

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/o/obama-ayers.htm

Here's another comparison of Snopes vs. Truth or fiction's treatment of the email that has gone out regarding 'Obama's 50 lies'. Notice that Snopes often adds editorial comments favoring Obama on unproven statements, or even on proven ones where they say he is 'taken out of context'.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/50lies.asp
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/o/obama-lies.htm


So, the next time I read a post that isn't a proven fact, I should call that person out? Oh, and does it have to be proven by Snopes? What if it's something scientific about dogs or anything? Would it do to have a scientific study? Or is that not enough proof? You know how studies go sometimes. Should we check with Snopes? What about some food thread...when we talk about what's healthy or not. Should no one post a thing about it because it's not proven? By Snopes? There are hundreds of things I read on this forum which are not proven. Or proven by Snopes.

Quote:
If someone is using an anecdote as evidence to illustrate a point, then yes, I expect it to be factual, verifiable evidence and not something made up or misrepresenting facts. And I expect the poster to fact check it instead of saying "well this might not be true" or at least to admit "whoops looks like I was mistaken" when someone else does.

The email is making claims about Medicare that are factually not true - that's the exact opposite of plausible? There's no point, then, except scaremongering.
I'll be sure to remember that the next time I see anyone posting something that may or may not be true. I'll expect to see documentation and proof of the most proven reliability....you know... Snopes. Ha!

While we're at it, can you prove beyond a doubt that Snopes is reliable and unbiased? Can you prove that their sources are 100% reliable and factual? Where's the documentation for that? What is their political affiliation? Do you know what presidential candidate they supported?

Quote:
Yes, there are laws that are limiting gun ownership. Not all of them are bad. Not all of them are good. Putting fake information that is written as fact isn't going to make people aware that this "could" happen.
Is that a fact? I love your dogs too. But I disagree that discussing something where a point is being made must be necessarily factual.

And although I have never seen this in you, there's that same sense of entitlement expectation thing again that is washing over this country, that because someone accepts a loan they can't afford, when the contract is right in front of their face, that's someone else's fault....surely not their own. Methinks you're being brainwashed. There are already, IN PLACE laws about contracts...not holding up in court IF the print is too small or incidental. If I fail to read any part of a contract, I hold no one responsible but myself. It's that same old liberal mind set that the government or someone should take care of and protect "me."

But fear not any longer. I will stay out of your (collective you) hair since it's all so very disturbing to you.
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  #44  
Old 12-13-2012, 02:44 PM
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Oh, look.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/seealaska.asp

http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/newsquotes.asp

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.asp

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/bushbook.asp

Oh, noes! So biased!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
While we're at it, can you prove beyond a doubt that Snopes is reliable and unbiased? Can you prove that their sources are 100% reliable and factual? Where's the documentation for that? What is their political affiliation? Do you know what presidential candidate they supported?
I can't prove it, I can only use my mind to check out the sources they cite and decide if their research was valid - which, so far I haven't seen a compelling reason to question. Can you prove that truth or fiction is reliable and unbiased? They don't support any candidate, LOL. One of them is Canadian for crying out loud.


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Is that a fact? I love your dogs too. But I disagree that discussing something where a point is being made must be necessarily factual.
You are missing the point. It's not the point or opinion that needs to be factual; it is anything presented as evidence that must be factual. If I say "Gosh I'm really worried about xyz happening" that is an opinion. If I say "OMG I TOLD you I was worried about xyz -- look at this email where xyz actually happened to someone!!!" to back myself up, then yea... You have a right to expect the story in that email to be factual. "Well it might as well be true the way things are headed!" isn't good enough.


Quote:
And although I have never seen this in you, there's that same sense of entitlement expectation thing again that is washing over this country, that because someone accepts a loan they can't afford, when the contract is right in front of their face, that's someone else's fault....surely not their own. Methinks you're being brainwashed. There are already, IN PLACE laws about contracts...not holding up in court IF the print is too small or incidental. If I fail to read any part of a contract, I hold no one responsible but myself. It's that same old liberal mind set that the government or someone should take care of and protect "me."
Expecting someone's anecdotes to be true is entitlement?

Quote:
But fear not any longer. I will stay out of your (collective you) hair since it's all so very disturbing to you.
It actually IS disturbing to me that you think repeating any old story no matter how true or untrue to support an opinion is A-ok, and that anyone who disagrees is an entitlement baby.
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  #45  
Old 12-13-2012, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Expecting someone's anecdotes to be true is entitlement?
No, expecting a bail out when someone is scammed when they had a legal right to read and sign a contract before they got a loan, for example.

Quote:
it is anything presented as evidence that must be factual.
I did NOT present it as evidence or non-evidence. I simply posted something I read. And then got ganged up on and chewed out for it.

Done. So sorry I posted.
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"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

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  #46  
Old 12-13-2012, 03:02 PM
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Interestingly enough, Dober...Truthorfiction thinks pretty highly of Snopes:

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/s/snopes.htm

Quote:
Snopes.com is an excellent site that has become an authoritative source for information about urban legends and forwarded emails. We regard David and Barbara Mikkelson, the founders and operators of Snopes.com, as colleagues and professional researchers who have earned a good reputation for what they do.

We can give a unique perspective on this story because we do the same kind of work as Snopes.com and have sometimes been the target of similar criticism.

We've got a collection of emails that have come to TruthOrFiction.com accusing us of being "right wing whackos" as well as "liberals" and "communists." We've been suspected of being owned and operated by both Republicans and Democrats. We've been called "Christian propagandists" as well as "atheists pretending to be neutral." We occasionally receive emails that have elaborate theories about who "really" owns us and what our "real" motives are.

The bottom line is that if you try to report the truth, there will be those who don't like the truth you've reported and who will develop suspicions about why you did.
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  #47  
Old 12-13-2012, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
No, expecting a bail out when someone is scammed when they had a legal right to read and sign a contract before they got a loan, for example.
What does that... have to do with the rest of the thread?

Quote:
I did NOT present it as evidence or non-evidence. I simply posted something I read. And then got ganged up on and chewed out for it.

Done. So sorry I posted.

What I'm struggling to understand, then, is why post it at all? If you don't believe it's true and you don't intend for it to support your opinions about the state of gun control in this country... why pass along something like this at all? Just as a nice bedtime story?
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  #48  
Old 12-13-2012, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
Me...spamming? Are you serious?! This was something I got in an email. I put at the bottom of my post that I wasn't sure if this was true or not. Third time. My point in posting it was that it was plausible....that it isn't that far fetched the way things are going in this country. Useless? If I had a dollar for every bit of uselessness I read here, I'd have a lot of $. Do you mean to tell me that every single thing someone posts on here is factualand "useful?" Do you have to have everything at face value, it's literal meaning...all spelled out to have any relevance for you? Is there no concept of symbolism for you all? This is something that could happen if it hasn't already somewhere. Things are moving in this direction...more watchfulness by the government, more involvement, more over seeing and regulating, more and more laws and bans, more taxes and fees, more surveillance and registering of this and that, more tracking of citizens. We're becoming slaves for a select few in power...little sheep-pawns. And this email, false or not could very well be fact just around the corner.

I've been on this forum for a very long time and I have never been accused of spamming. What are you people so afraid of? If you don't like reading something that may not be a fact, if you have no imagination about something someone posts that isn't a fact, can't bear to discuss the concepts or possibilities in it, then don't read it any further, don't bother with it. Why must you mock me with your tin hats and be nasty about it!

And MY OPINION is that to thwart regular citizens' rights to keep and bear arms in any way is interfering with the 2nd amendment. To change the constitution is not something to take lightly. It is not moving with the "times." The constitution is NOT meant to be messed with and disregarded as it is being done now by the politicians. It's just plain criminal and to suggest tampering with the constitution is down right outrageous. Laws can be created or dismantled to move with the "times." But the constitution is the foundation or and what defines America. Or did.
The founding fathers recognized that there may be a need to alter certain parts of the constitution, a put in place a method for doing just that. It's difficult, but it can be done. The constitution has been changed to "move with the times," such as with the abolishment of slavery.
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  #49  
Old 12-13-2012, 05:15 PM
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"If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams 1776





"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

Thomas Jefferson
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  #50  
Old 12-13-2012, 05:33 PM
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HUGS phooey on them . I read it and was intrigued enough to go look into it more.
which is what I do with chain letters. I look up the happenings and decide from there.
Thanks for sharing I had not gotten that one yet.
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