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  #31  
Old 12-12-2012, 10:52 PM
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... 0.o
not sure where in this thread did you saw somebody threatening to take your guns away from you..
and since when does disagreeing with something or voicing your opinion on an issue mean having to move to another country?

I said I had no interest in guns and don't have one or know about the laws.. not that I don't agree with guns in general. I'm A OK with responsible gun ownership. I just don't want one.

lol but on that lovely note. I'm out. This thread is going to get big and ugly and frankly when it starts with Snopes being a big liberal conspiracy this thread is going nowhere but down.

I'm getting a puppy soon and am filled with happy. Plus I love Doberluv's advice and input on this forum on literally every other subject except politics and I know if I continue with this thread I will not want to live on this planet anymore let alone this country soooo..
Bye lol
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  #32  
Old 12-12-2012, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Greenmagick View Post
I am a patriot. I am pro america. I do think there needs to be some gun control.

I wish I could laugh at the idea that Snopes is liberal or biased but it seems you are serious in thinking that. Yes, some people do "believe" that because they want to believe their propaganda is true. Did you actually read their report and see where it cites sources? Can you debunk that?

Honestly, I find fear mongering very unpatriotic
Practically everything I ever read from Snopes puts a spin on it and it's usually biased.

If you don't see what's happening in this country, there's nothing I or anyone can do. Maybe you weren't around when America was a free country. But when it collapses, maybe, just maybe people will get it...doubtful, but maybe.
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"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

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  #33  
Old 12-12-2012, 10:57 PM
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gun control is anti American. Read the constitution people. If there would have been the gun control we now have back then, we would have lost the revolutionary war. And we wouldn't exist!
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"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

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  #34  
Old 12-12-2012, 11:05 PM
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Wrong thread lol
but I will say..the constitution had some pretty interesting bits on slavery and women too. Progress involves change sometimes, and not all change is bad. Fear mongering and living in the past and resisting change with a healthy "love it or leave!" is not what America is about IMO
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  #35  
Old 12-12-2012, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Fran101 View Post
... 0.o
not sure where in this thread did you saw somebody threatening to take your guns away from you..
and since when does disagreeing with something or voicing your opinion on an issue mean having to move to another country?

I said I had no interest in guns and don't have one or know about the laws.. not that I don't agree with guns in general. I'm A OK with responsible gun ownership. I just don't want one.

lol but on that lovely note. I'm out. This thread is going to get big and ugly and frankly when it starts with Snopes being a big liberal conspiracy this thread is going nowhere but down.

I'm getting a puppy soon and am filled with happy. Plus I love Doberluv's advice and input on this forum on literally every other subject except politics and I know if I continue with this thread I will not want to live on this planet anymore let alone this country soooo..
Bye lol
You've got it right Fran....will follow your lead.
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  #36  
Old 12-12-2012, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
checking out stuff before passing along is good.
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Originally Posted by ~Jessie~ View Post
This is exactly why people need to question the things they read, rather than just taking them at face value.

Anything that says it's forwarded, or from a friend of a friend, gets an automatic Snopes check from me. As a general rule, forwards aren't reliable or trustworthy.


Dober, you really need to make a quick google search before posting this stuff. You're essentially spamming the forum - posting useless, controversial stuff that's easily proven to be false. I've been away for quite a while, and while I don't know if you've recently posted this kind of stuff, but you used to do it quite frequently. People called you out on it then and are calling you out on it now.

How hard is it to take half a second to search for the validity of stories? We question news stories all the time, and I'd argue that the news is a more reliable source than mass forwarded emails.

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Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
In what world does

equal

??? Am I taking crazy pills today?
To a lot of pro-gun people, it does. The problem with gun control is that once you have a single law on the books about it, so much easier to add to it the current laws to further restrict gun control than it is to pass a new one. The other problem with it is that it doesn't work - who obeys laws? The law-abiding people. Those people probably are not doing things with their guns that are dangerous or irresponsible. The people who are already breaking the laws are probably not going to go "Oh, crap. They just passed another gun control law. I better not give up my guns."

It limits the ability of law-abiding gun owners to protect themselves and exercise their use of their guns. Not much else.
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  #37  
Old 12-13-2012, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by noludoru View Post


Dober, you really need to make a quick google search before posting this stuff. You're essentially spamming the forum - posting useless, controversial stuff that's easily proven to be false. I've been away for quite a while, and while I don't know if you've recently posted this kind of stuff, but you used to do it quite frequently. People called you out on it then and are calling you out on it now.

How hard is it to take half a second to search for the validity of stories? We question news stories all the time, and I'd argue that the news is a more reliable source than mass forwarded emails.



To a lot of pro-gun people, it does. The problem with gun control is that once you have a single law on the books about it, so much easier to add to it the current laws to further restrict gun control than it is to pass a new one. The other problem with it is that it doesn't work - who obeys laws? The law-abiding people. Those people probably are not doing things with their guns that are dangerous or irresponsible. The people who are already breaking the laws are probably not going to go "Oh, crap. They just passed another gun control law. I better not give up my guns."

It limits the ability of law-abiding gun owners to protect themselves and exercise their use of their guns. Not much else.
Me...spamming? Are you serious?! This was something I got in an email. I put at the bottom of my post that I wasn't sure if this was true or not. Third time. My point in posting it was that it was plausible....that it isn't that far fetched the way things are going in this country. Useless? If I had a dollar for every bit of uselessness I read here, I'd have a lot of $. Do you mean to tell me that every single thing someone posts on here is factualand "useful?" Do you have to have everything at face value, it's literal meaning...all spelled out to have any relevance for you? Is there no concept of symbolism for you all? This is something that could happen if it hasn't already somewhere. Things are moving in this direction...more watchfulness by the government, more involvement, more over seeing and regulating, more and more laws and bans, more taxes and fees, more surveillance and registering of this and that, more tracking of citizens. We're becoming slaves for a select few in power...little sheep-pawns. And this email, false or not could very well be fact just around the corner.

I've been on this forum for a very long time and I have never been accused of spamming. What are you people so afraid of? If you don't like reading something that may not be a fact, if you have no imagination about something someone posts that isn't a fact, can't bear to discuss the concepts or possibilities in it, then don't read it any further, don't bother with it. Why must you mock me with your tin hats and be nasty about it!

And MY OPINION is that to thwart regular citizens' rights to keep and bear arms in any way is interfering with the 2nd amendment. To change the constitution is not something to take lightly. It is not moving with the "times." The constitution is NOT meant to be messed with and disregarded as it is being done now by the politicians. It's just plain criminal and to suggest tampering with the constitution is down right outrageous. Laws can be created or dismantled to move with the "times." But the constitution is the foundation or and what defines America. Or did.
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"If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams 1776





"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

Thomas Jefferson
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  #38  
Old 12-13-2012, 01:29 PM
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Doberluv, I typically stay out of all your political threads but I do usually read them.

I don't agree that you are spamming and I don't think you post it to start a fight. But, I do believe you could post something similar maybe written yourself, or researched yourself or more valid news articles other than something sent to you in an email or even pose it as a question, a discussion rather than fear mongering. I understand you said at the end of it that it's second hand information but it's frustrating because you always seem to post second hand "he said, she said, they said" information from chain emails as though it contained a lot of wisdom.

It's frustrating because I do think you are an intelligent women but you post these threads that are so full of inaccuracies and holes without going deeper to find the truth. And it does seem like almost every political thread you start is like that.

Added onto that I find the way you make broad sweeping generalizations about people, patriotism, sheep, freedom of yesteryear, anti-american etc. to be insulting and take away even farther from your position. You could try and discuss it rather than immediately turn nasty.

I'm not posting this to attack you, I'm just trying to explain why maybe people get so annoyed with these type of posts. I think at the end very little is gained on either side and a lot lost because no real useful, intelligent discussion happens.

Other than that, I was kinda curious if you had an example of snopes showing a liberal slant?
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  #39  
Old 12-13-2012, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
Me...spamming? Are you serious?! This was something I got in an email. I put at the bottom of my post that I wasn't sure if this was true or not. Third time. My point in posting it was that it was plausible....that it isn't that far fetched the way things are going in this country. Useless? If I had a dollar for every bit of uselessness I read here, I'd have a lot of $. Do you mean to tell me that every single thing someone posts on here is factualand "useful?" Do you have to have everything at face value, it's literal meaning...all spelled out to have any relevance for you? Is there no concept of symbolism for you all? This is something that could happen if it hasn't already somewhere. Things are moving in this direction...more watchfulness by the government, more involvement, more over seeing and regulating, more and more laws and bans, more taxes and fees, more surveillance and registering of this and that, more tracking of citizens. We're becoming slaves for a select few in power...little sheep-pawns. And this email, false or not could very well be fact just around the corner.

I've been on this forum for a very long time and I have never been accused of spamming. What are you people so afraid of? If you don't like reading something that may not be a fact, if you have no imagination about something someone posts that isn't a fact, can't bear to discuss the concepts or possibilities in it, then don't read it any further, don't bother with it. Why must you mock me with your tin hats and be nasty about it!

And MY OPINION is that to thwart regular citizens' rights to keep and bear arms in any way is interfering with the 2nd amendment. To change the constitution is not something to take lightly. It is not moving with the "times." The constitution is NOT meant to be messed with and disregarded as it is being done now by the politicians. It's just plain criminal and to suggest tampering with the constitution is down right outrageous. Laws can be created or dismantled to move with the "times." But the constitution is the foundation or and what defines America. Or did.
Carrie, you know I really appreciate you as a member here and I love your dogs. You give excellent training advice and I love hearing updates on your chis.

My opinion is that posting these fear mongering e-mails is dangerous. People (many people who aren't members, even) read these threads and take this "information" for fact. They don't look it up, and they pass the information along.

This is what e-mail forwards are for. The senders are HOPING that people will believe the information (especially since they're always written with anecdotes so they must be true), and pass it along. Eventually, you have Uncle Joe at the Christmas dinner table talking about how Obamacare is terrible because it limits gun rights. America is being taken over! It's true because he knew someone who had their gallbladder taken out and had to answer questions about gun ownership. And the truth is, there is NO factual information there.

Obviously, this paragraph is what the forward is trying to get people to pass along. Don't vote for Obama because Obamacare will ban guns!

Quote:
Either way, it is out there and the second the government gets into your medical records (as they want to under Obamacare) it will become a major issue and will ultimately result in lock and load!!
Yes, there are laws that are limiting gun ownership. Not all of them are bad. Not all of them are good. Putting fake information that is written as fact isn't going to make people aware that this "could" happen.

Aliens could land on earth tomorrow and capture us and make us mine for gold on planet Oooglahdong. This truly COULD happen. Imagine if I posted this.

"My friend Mary's mother's cousin received a communication from outer space. The aliens are coming down to earth and kidnapping all of the humans! Everyone needs to build an underground bunker to hide! THIS IS FOR SERIOUS!!!"

Even if I put "this is something I received in my e-mail and it may not be true" it is STILL passing along a bogus story. When people see TEXT TEXT TEXT disclaimer TEXT TEXT TEXT they tend to ignore that tiny little disclaimer.

Look at how many people are sucked into horrible car loans and CD of the month clubs. They read what they want to read (the information that's being toted as truth) and ignore the fine print.
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Last edited by ~Jessie~; 12-13-2012 at 01:54 PM.
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  #40  
Old 12-13-2012, 01:36 PM
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If someone is using an anecdote as evidence to illustrate a point, then yes, I expect it to be factual, verifiable evidence and not something made up or misrepresenting facts. And I expect the poster to fact check it instead of saying "well this might not be true" or at least to admit "whoops looks like I was mistaken" when someone else does.

The email is making claims about Medicare that are factually not true - that's the exact opposite of plausible? There's no point, then, except scaremongering.
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