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  #11  
Old 01-14-2005, 11:45 AM
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avenlee avenlee is offline
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I think it all depends on if your dog respects you as the leader. Wouldn't matter what phrase you use or the way you say it. They listen to you! Don't cut them any slack in the beginning and they will learn.
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  #12  
Old 01-14-2005, 01:01 PM
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becca_4321 becca_4321 is offline
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Yeah, I dont believe its all in the tone. With Princess I can tell her sit, or whatever in a regular voice and she will respond. Sometimes she's being bratty and I have use the I'm getting ticked tone to get her to listen (no differnt than a kid).
Last summer a man came to our shop with his puppy he was so proud of how smart the pup was. He wanted to show us all he could get her to do. I was in shock! He started yelling out these orders in the meanest tone, Sit, I said SIT, go get it, ect. The puppy listened but I felt so sorry for the poor thing! I felt like the poor thing cant really be enjoying himself playing fetch when that guy is screaming at it like it just did something wrong, poor thing had to be scared poohless! I really wanted to just go pick up that pup and take it home with me. We told him we dont have to yell at Princess to get her to do things, his response was YOU HAVE TO, ITS ALL IN THE TONE......if I did that with Princess she'd look at me like I had mental problems and most likely hide from me.
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  #13  
Old 01-14-2005, 01:05 PM
Saje Saje is offline
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I think tone can help if you back it up with a lot of consitent training. By that I mean you always use the same tone when you work with them and follow through so that they know that they have to do that.

I don't think it's everything though. Definitely not with a pup.
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  #14  
Old 01-14-2005, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
katysdog, it REALLY riled me when you said it's all in the tone of voice. it moist certainly is not
.

A tone of voice is only as good as the response that goes with it. It's all about condition-response learning. If the dog does a certain behavior and you just say, "no" and there's nothing that goes with no, then no means nothing to a dog. It's just a sound. You'd have to have something associated with the word that reduces the chance of that behavior being repeated.

But, what studies have shown is that it is far more effective to give no attention for undesireable behavior what so ever and distract or show the dog another alternate behavior that you like. Then praise/treat for good behavior. Saying, "no" may be taken by the dog as attention. You're talking to him. You're looking at him. Unless you accompany it with some very harsh correcton, it isn't going mean much of anything. And being too harsh will ruin your dog.

In other words, whatever behavior the dog is doing will be repeated if there is a payoff. If what he's doing is better than the consequence or payoff, he'll keep doing it.
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  #15  
Old 01-15-2005, 06:43 AM
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The tone of my voice works with my terrier, but as the breeder of my Anatolian said "they have a mind of their own which turns into a deaf ear when they decide to do what they want". I have a feeling Anatolian are much like Filas in that way.
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  #16  
Old 01-15-2005, 12:27 PM
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oops, didnt mean to double post
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  #17  
Old 01-15-2005, 12:29 PM
Brattina88 Brattina88 is offline
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Sometimes the word 'no' is way over used and the dog tunes you out. Its like nagging, a big no-no with dogs and kids. When a dog is misbehaiving (and kids, for that matter lol!) its better to tell them What to do instead of What Not to do. For example, if the dog is jumping up and you say 'no' the dog may ignore you. The next time the dog jumps up say 'off' (a good command to teach) and then 'sit' A dog can't jump while she's sitting.
The tone of the voice can be important. If your telling your dog to quit licking you, but your laughing the dog is going to keep on doing it because its getting attention that doesnt sound negative. However, I believe the commant made about men trainers vs. female trainers because of the deepness of voice to be completely false.
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  #18  
Old 01-15-2005, 12:51 PM
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That is so true Brattina. I agree with all of that. It's a good idea to try to get your dog to stop doing things too, by teaching them other words, like commands and saving no for the big stuff and not get them soooo use to hearing it all the time. I use a lot of leave it, enough, away, out, but they had to be shown and taught what those words mean. They are not punishing. They are just commands.....But at one point or time something unpleasant must have occured with the no word for it to mean anything. If someone uses a very harsh, sharp voice, that may be enough unpleasant or startling to make the word, no effective. But just saying, "no" isn't usually very much of a deterent.

And I agree, when possible try to show the dog something else, an alternative behavior and reward lavishly when it stops the undesireable behavior.
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  #19  
Old 01-15-2005, 02:52 PM
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I'd say the two breeds are very similar in many ways, Barb. It makes perfect sense when you think that they were bred to do essentially the same type of work, just in different environments. It takes a tough, tenacious and mentally focused dog to tend herds with minimal human supervision.
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  #20  
Old 01-19-2005, 08:07 PM
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Old boss told me to put a growl in my voice and lower it when I said no. Works for me
anybody tired of old boss yet? I learned so much from him that i just want to pass it on. He was an awesome trainer.
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