Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dogs - General Dog Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 12-02-2012, 06:52 PM
Julee's Avatar
Julee Julee is offline
Aware
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kent, CT
Posts: 2,878
Default

Yes, I know, I was responding to AdrianneIsabel re: ESAs.

I don't think I'm being clear. I'm NOT saying that psych dogs, med alert/response, and hearing dogs are any less legitimate (or should be held to a different standard) than mobility are guild dogs. I was saying, on the health aspect of choosing a candidate, mobility and guide dogs have a more physically strenuous job. A fairly average dog, structure wise, wouldn't have problems being a psych, hearing, or med alert/response dog. A mobility or guide dog need to be extremely well built to have a long working life.
__________________
If it makes you happy, and makes you proud, it's a pretty good investment.



Equinox Shadow Of A Hero CGC "Shadow"
Equinox Ain't No Rest For The Wicked CGC "Embyr"
Equinox Play Me Some Mountain Music "Copper"
Equinox Don't Feed It After Midnight "Bloo"
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 12-02-2012, 06:57 PM
AdrianneIsabel's Avatar
AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
Glutton for Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8,893
Default

I think we're all well aware of ESA and that was my point.

However, I don't think I would ever choose a dog of lesser health for a working dog of any type of work given the choice.
__________________
Sloan von Krigbaum IPO1 CGC BH CD NA NJ PD MJ-N RATI RATN 3/7/10 -
Shamoo NJ-N RATI RATN 3/1/98 -
Phelan du Loups du Soleil CGC RATI 6/15/13 -
Chili Brigades Brover 5/23/14 -

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
Backup CGC HIC CD SRD SJ-N RATI 12/29/09 - 07/05/13

You were amazing, we did amazing things.


Harmony Canine, relationship based training.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 12-02-2012, 06:58 PM
CatStina CatStina is offline
SBT Lover!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 634
Default

SDs should be health tested no matter what task they are to perform. The last thing you want is for someone's lifeline to become seriously ill when it's still young and then have to start the whole process over again!

ESAs are a completely different story, almost any dog can be an ESA. They do not have public access rights and do not need to be trained to do specific tasks.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 12-02-2012, 07:06 PM
Julee's Avatar
Julee Julee is offline
Aware
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kent, CT
Posts: 2,878
Default

AdrianneIsabel, I read your previous post as you thinking that ESAs and SDs were on the same level regarding rights, public access, etc. I have not talked to most of you before this week - I have no idea who knows what regarding the laws. I know what the laws are.

I'm not at all saying that you should go get a dysplastic dog for a medical response dog, or anything even remotely close to that. Personally, I would never use a dog with less than excellent rated hips for guide or mobility work ("extremely well built to have a long working life"), nor would I recommend anyone use a dog with less than excellent rated hips for guide or mobility work. However, I wouldn't mind using a dog with good rated hips ("A fairly average dog, structure wise") for medical alert/response, hearing alert, psych, etc. I completely agree with all potential service dogs being health tested. I hope that makes more sense.
__________________
If it makes you happy, and makes you proud, it's a pretty good investment.



Equinox Shadow Of A Hero CGC "Shadow"
Equinox Ain't No Rest For The Wicked CGC "Embyr"
Equinox Play Me Some Mountain Music "Copper"
Equinox Don't Feed It After Midnight "Bloo"
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 12-02-2012, 07:26 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,036
Default

Quote:
For a psych dog, medical alert/response dog, or a hearing dog... they do need to be physically sound, but it's not quite as strenuous as a guide or mobility dog's job.
PSDs need to have the most stable temperament of all SDs. They CANNOT freak out when their handler is freaking out. All service dogs need a stable temperament, yes, but PSDs the most. A dog can have a stable temperament and still be so sensitive to his handler's emotional state that he's make a terrible PSD, while still making an awesome mobility dog. Logan's temperament is actually pretty perfect for a PSD - he is aware of people's emotional states, but he doesn't over-react. He'll come and offer himself for petting when someone's crying, and he'll come interrupt me when I'm upset (he's more aware of me than anyone else in my family...he interrupted me several times while I was watching Torchwood lol). He doesn't do PSD work, he does more guide and mobility work, though it is very good to have a stable dog when I'm having a sensory shutdown and getting extremely irritated by every person we pass. He just continues with his work.

I would be less inclined to get a PSD candidate from a shelter just for the temperament issues. Not that there aren't dogs there that would make excellent PSDs, but when you're owner-training it's all about stacking the odds in your favor. Knowing the temperament of a dog's parents can give you a HUGE clue about your pup's future temperament. Logan's basically a larger version of his sire (in looks and the way he acts, from the short time I got to interact with his sire and pictures I continue to see).
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 12-02-2012, 07:35 PM
Julee's Avatar
Julee Julee is offline
Aware
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kent, CT
Posts: 2,878
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saeleofu View Post
PSDs need to have the most stable temperament of all SDs. They CANNOT freak out when their handler is freaking out. All service dogs need a stable temperament, yes, but PSDs the most. A dog can have a stable temperament and still be so sensitive to his handler's emotional state that he's make a terrible PSD, while still making an awesome mobility dog. Logan's temperament is actually pretty perfect for a PSD - he is aware of people's emotional states, but he doesn't over-react. He'll come and offer himself for petting when someone's crying, and he'll come interrupt me when I'm upset (he's more aware of me than anyone else in my family...he interrupted me several times while I was watching Torchwood lol). He doesn't do PSD work, he does more guide and mobility work, though it is very good to have a stable dog when I'm having a sensory shutdown and getting extremely irritated by every person we pass. He just continues with his work.

I would be less inclined to get a PSD candidate from a shelter just for the temperament issues. Not that there aren't dogs there that would make excellent PSDs, but when you're owner-training it's all about stacking the odds in your favor. Knowing the temperament of a dog's parents can give you a HUGE clue about your pup's future temperament. Logan's basically a larger version of his sire (in looks and the way he acts, from the short time I got to interact with his sire and pictures I continue to see).
The post that you quoted I was talking physically, not mentally. I concur that PSDs must have the most stable temperament.
__________________
If it makes you happy, and makes you proud, it's a pretty good investment.



Equinox Shadow Of A Hero CGC "Shadow"
Equinox Ain't No Rest For The Wicked CGC "Embyr"
Equinox Play Me Some Mountain Music "Copper"
Equinox Don't Feed It After Midnight "Bloo"
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 12-02-2012, 08:56 PM
OwnedByBCs's Avatar
OwnedByBCs OwnedByBCs is offline
Will Creep For Sheep
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 588
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julee View Post
AdrianneIsabel, I read your previous post as you thinking that ESAs and SDs were on the same level regarding rights, public access, etc. I have not talked to most of you before this week - I have no idea who knows what regarding the laws. I know what the laws are.

I'm not at all saying that you should go get a dysplastic dog for a medical response dog, or anything even remotely close to that. Personally, I would never use a dog with less than excellent rated hips for guide or mobility work ("extremely well built to have a long working life"), nor would I recommend anyone use a dog with less than excellent rated hips for guide or mobility work. However, I wouldn't mind using a dog with good rated hips ("A fairly average dog, structure wise") for medical alert/response, hearing alert, psych, etc. I completely agree with all potential service dogs being health tested. I hope that makes more sense.
Just for the record, I don't know much about service dogs, but I am a little confused as to why you would discount a dog with Good hips for guide or mobility work, or why you would think that a dog with good hips has "average" structure.

One, a dog with good or excellent hips can have terrible structure. Their front could be straight, their shoulders too narrow, they could have elbow dysplasia, they could have a ewe neck or slip hocks- and still have perfectly fine hips- especially if they are tested young (around 2). A dog who is tested Fair could have perfectly good structure, with looser hips than most, but I'm saying that a dog with Fair hips and consistent and balanced body structure everywhere else would be a better choice than a dog who lucked out on getting Excellent hips and has a ewe neck. You also need to take into account the dog's siblings- did the rest of the litter rate Fair or lower and one puppy got the jackpot of Excellent hips? If that was the case I'd have to wonder if the x-rays were somehow misleading.

Not that I'm advocating that Service Dogs shouldn't be thoroughly health tested, but I'm just saying that there is more to a structurally sound dog than hips. I would tend to agree that someone should be very wary of using a service dog who didn't pass OFAs, but we need to remember that Fair and Good are still passing grades- and shouldn't cause the dog any hip-related issues in its life. I mean, I am still very cautious and have never used a Fair dog myself in breeding, but I guess my point is that a dog with Fair hips isn't the end of the world. Certainly not all dogs with Excellent hips are superb representatives of their breed or are even healthy dogs in general- you have to take into account the whole dog whenever you're selecting a working partner or a breeding prospect.

I just realized that this was entirely off topic and I apologize- didn't read through the whole thread.
__________________

www.brigadoonbordercollies.com
http://brigadoonbc.wordpress.com/

Do you want your dog to respect you because you demanded it, or because you truly earned it?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 12-02-2012, 09:49 PM
Julee's Avatar
Julee Julee is offline
Aware
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kent, CT
Posts: 2,878
Default

I'm not wording things well enough today. I'll have to come back to this thread tomorrow when I've had more sleep. In the meantime, I'm sorry for the confusion I've been causing - hoping I can clear it up tomorrow.
__________________
If it makes you happy, and makes you proud, it's a pretty good investment.



Equinox Shadow Of A Hero CGC "Shadow"
Equinox Ain't No Rest For The Wicked CGC "Embyr"
Equinox Play Me Some Mountain Music "Copper"
Equinox Don't Feed It After Midnight "Bloo"
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 12-02-2012, 09:55 PM
JessLough JessLough is offline
Love My Mutt <3
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 13,189
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilliesMom View Post
Are there any kind of standards, or standardized testing, for service dogs or service dog trainers? I was just reading the comment section on that facebook link and somebody posted that they and their dog were taking service dog training through PetCo?
Adrianne answered this, about the location of the rescue (the US).

In Canada, where I see you are, yes, there are standards and testing. I'm not sure all what though .
__________________
Ella: 3 year old female ferret
Nacho: ~8 year old male ferret

Goodbye, Rosey. You were the best girl I could have asked for. 10/15/96-03/08/13
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 12-02-2012, 11:09 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,036
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JessLough View Post
Adrianne answered this, about the location of the rescue (the US).

In Canada, where I see you are, yes, there are standards and testing. I'm not sure all what though .
US doesn't have any (the dog must be task trained, well behaved, housebroken, and the handler must have a disability that the dog mitigates). I think we eventually WILL have some formal standards and testing in place, because fakers and poorly trained dogs/handlers are ruining it for everyone else.

I'm not sure what Canada has, either. Australia seems to be moving towards standardized certification, or at least parts of it are. I think the UK is program dogs only (not sure though).



Quote:
but I'm just saying that there is more to a structurally sound dog than hips.
Very, very true. You MUST look at the whole dog. Not just the whole dog's structure, but the WHOLE dog as in structure, health, temperament, etc.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:19 AM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site