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  #21  
Old 01-11-2005, 09:12 AM
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dawnell dawnell is offline
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me too!
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  #22  
Old 01-11-2005, 02:55 PM
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Me too, actually I love those dobes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by joce
That is cruel. It is done at such a young age so it isn't done when they are older.
It is cruel any way you see it. Look at it this point: Blondie's mother had 5 puppies. The breeded opted not to dock them, and as far as I know, 3 of the puppies weren't docked after adoption. The breeder's decision gave them a chance, but if the breeder would have thought about not getting them with an owner, all of them would have suffered such horrible pain, _my_ Blondie included!! At least most of them were spared.

I think it'll be also a way to choose the possible future owners. If I had a litter and someone didn't want a puppy just because it's not docked, I'd be reluctanct to even consider that person as a possible recipient of a pup. I'd much prefer somebody who respects their integrity and is sensible about the pain they might feel.

But again, I respect different opinions, this is just how I think. I'd love docking to be made illegal, though
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  #23  
Old 01-12-2005, 04:29 PM
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Do you really think its necessary to make it "illegal"? Spend the time, money and effort to create a law to stop people from docking a dogs tail? If you're going to go that far, might as well make circumcision on humans illegal or for that matter any form of non-essential invasive surgery.

I understand how cropping and docking is cruel, especially since its just cosmetic, but shouldn't we leave some choices to ourselves without letting the government make them for us?

Do those who oppose cropping and docking eat any animal products? I betcha it hurts like hell for a cow once they hit that slaughter house. How about all those cows hooked up to milking machines all day or chickens doomed to a life of producing eggs. How about popular sports, horse racing, bull riding, fishing. I'm sure these aren't kind to the animals.

We put so much effort into fighting something that benefits a few animals when there are so many more important issues affecting people everyday that need our attention? (homelessness, poverty, disease, etc) Why not fight to increase minimum wage or petition for more government spending on healthcare....

Anyway...not trying to criticize any opinions, just offering suggestions.
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  #24  
Old 01-12-2005, 04:31 PM
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On another note, i have never seen a doberman without a docked tail until that picture above. Thanks for posting it! They look like a completely different breed and not at all unattractive
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  #25  
Old 01-12-2005, 04:59 PM
Saje Saje is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DobeDad
Do you really think its necessary to make it "illegal"? Spend the time, money and effort to create a law to stop people from docking a dogs tail? If you're going to go that far, might as well make circumcision on humans illegal or for that matter any form of non-essential invasive surgery.

I understand how cropping and docking is cruel, especially since its just cosmetic, but shouldn't we leave some choices to ourselves without letting the government make them for us?

Do those who oppose cropping and docking eat any animal products? I betcha it hurts like hell for a cow once they hit that slaughter house. How about all those cows hooked up to milking machines all day or chickens doomed to a life of producing eggs. How about popular sports, horse racing, bull riding, fishing. I'm sure these aren't kind to the animals.

We put so much effort into fighting something that benefits a few animals when there are so many more important issues affecting people everyday that need our attention? (homelessness, poverty, disease, etc) Why not fight to increase minimum wage or petition for more government spending on healthcare....

Anyway...not trying to criticize any opinions, just offering suggestions.
Wow! <bows down> well said. Slaughtered animals is an excellent point. So is the life on animals raised in a cage for fur (Fashion over compassion), or factory farm chickens that live couped up there whole lives popping out eggs. ... if you want to torture yourself with more knowledge of suffering animals pm me.

There are too many rules already. I am a firm believer that education is the key. Make it a law and people will go underground. Shady centres that dock tails. <winces> Think: dog fighting.

What's wrong with people can't be fixed with more rules/laws. Well, maybe what's wrong with people can't be fixed - period.

Although, it's good that people feel that way. At least there are people who are interested in changing the suffering of animals. It has to start somewhere.

Ok. so you're getting to know me and not at all surprised that I jumped on this bandwagon?

Rant over - now
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  #26  
Old 01-12-2005, 07:58 PM
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http://www.trader.co.nz/vizsla/docking/

I'd like to hear your comments on this.
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  #27  
Old 01-12-2005, 08:17 PM
Saje Saje is offline
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I have no strong feelings on that. <shrugs> I'm glad there are strong-minded people out their promoting awareness and trying to make a difference. I'd like to see more "activists" for all sorts of causes.

As for the law, it's not wrong to have one. I just don't think it's a cure. People will still lop tails off with kitchen knives and when questioned they'll say their dog got in an accident.

I guess dog shows would change though as all competitors couldn't have been in a horrific, tail-losing accident.

Yup. No strong feelings.
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  #28  
Old 01-12-2005, 08:25 PM
Saje Saje is offline
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I'd just like to add that "facts" are easy to come by. There are all kinds of professionals that believe all sorts of things and because they are a professional it becomes a fact. That includes researchers. You can have different labs researching the same thing with different techs. and different procedures and they will come up with ... different results. Both "facts." Both well-research conclusions. Who's right? I don't know. I've said this before but all we can do is gather as much information as we can and come up with our own conclusions.

Four out of five dentists recommend crest (crest?) Probably. But who were the four? Where did they study? How much were they paid? and please tell me who was the fifth? What is his problem? What is his theory? Why didn't he get paid? LOL
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  #29  
Old 01-12-2005, 09:56 PM
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My Doberman's tail was not lopped off with a kitchen knife. His breeder, a world renoun breeder had a qualified vet do the surgery of docking and cropping. The tail is docked at 3 or 4 days old before the nervous system is even finished developing. There is no pain. If there were, it would be known. The puppies show no distress after coming out of anesthesia.

Secondly, cropping is done on the cartilge of the ear. It is a delicate surgery done under anesthesia and it cause some pain in the days that follow. My breeder said that the pups are sore for a day or two, (remember...it's cartilge, like getting your ears pierced, heals very fast) not very sore as they play, romp and jump all over eachother. By about the 3rd or 4th day, she said they were itchy, not painful. She would clean them with a cotton ball and the pups would lean into it to get a better rub down. Then at about 8-10 days following, the scabs are comletely gone, stiches out and that is that.

It is not the big deal some people want to make out of it. It's a surgery, yes. But there are and were reasons for cropping and docking which I will not elaborate here as it is in the article I posted. I just wanted to give the run down on the procedure in hope that you would rest assured that it is not as wildly abusive as some people, the media want to make out of it to stir people up. It's really quite ridiculous.

If people want to help animals that they think are being mistreated, why not concentrate on abuse? There are starving, beaten dogs who are chained to a tree all day, languishing for their entire life, who are used for fighting, dogs who have huge tumors that no one does anything about. Come on.....my dog is so loved and well cared for. To equate cropping and docking with some monstrous act is wrong.
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  #30  
Old 01-12-2005, 10:51 PM
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Renee750il Renee750il is offline
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It's not a 'monstrous act' but it is something of an anachronism. Most practical reasons for docking and cropping are outmoded now. I really like the point that if the practices were shunned by the show ring they would largely disappear.

As for being rough on a puppy, well, not being a puppy myself I can't speak to that. No matter what is opined by vets and other 'experts' they really can't know. It wasn't that long ago that they were using anesthesia that left the animal conscious - just paralyzed. Now there's a horror! The one thing that we do know is hard on a puppy is the anesthesia itself. Personally, no matter what my other feelings were, I'd try to avoid any unnecessary anesthetized procedures.
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Last edited by Renee750il; 01-12-2005 at 11:58 PM.
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